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Have you thought about all the cooling needs of our food procurement and delivery systems? How much energy is consumed to ensure food waste is at a minimum and you receive fresh produce and food each day? There are so many moving parts to our energy usage, and food poses complex problems and wasteful solutions along the way. Manik Suri and seeks to tackle this challenge with his climate tech startup by harnessing smart tracking systems that integrate machine learning and the internet of things (iOT). This interview provides insights and gets you thinking about how a simple solution, like tracking the energy use of simple appliances in our food chain can optimize our energy consumption, reduce waste, and provide grid stability (so your power doesn’t go out). Manik invites us all to be climate aware as we build a better future, harnessing the power of simple technology for good.
About Manik Suri
Manik is Founder and CEO of Therma, a technology startup whose mission is to help protect our food and our planet. Therma builds safety and sustainability tools to eliminate food waste, improve energy effciency and reduce refrigerant emissions — protecting consumers and combating climate change. Therma is deployed across restaurants, retailers, distributors and manufacturers worldwide, with leading brands including McDonalds, Starbucks, NOW Foods, 7-Eleven and Marriott Hotels. Previously, Manik co-founded the Governance Lab (GovLab), an innovation center at NYU that develops technology solutions to improve government. He has been recognized amongst the Top 100 Harvard Alumni in Technology, a past affiliate of Harvard’s Berkman Center for Internet & Society, and previously held positions at global investment firm D. E. Shaw & Company and the White House
National Economic Council.
Connect with Manik
Guest LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/maniksuri/
Guest Website: https://hellotherma.com
05:00 How Manik Suri, a Harvard Graduate from a family of doctors turn into a climate-focused entrepreneur
08:12 The need to reduce the carbon footprint of restaurant and commercial-scale cooling an refrigeration needs
15:55 Making refrigeration smarter to track and plan energy use with Therma°
19:00 Grid Flexibility Programs: Optimizing energy usage to minimize surges, reduce gird overload and minimize brown-outs and black-outs (but what about wind-outs?)
25:20 Refrigeration growing at 16-18% Compound Annual Growth Rate (CAGR) globally, increasing carbon and other greenhouse gas emissions – an emission source that must be addressed
29:30 The challenge of politics and diplomacy in moving towards a greener future
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Corinna Bellizzi is joined by special guest, Manik Suri as they explore how technology can offer solutions for global warming and climate activism
Today, we will deepen our understanding of energy waste as we get to know, Manik Suri.
Manik is founder and CEO of Therma, which you can find at hellotherma.com. They are a technology startup whose mission is to help protect our food and our planet. Something that aligns with the ethos of this show. Thermo builds safety and sustainability tools to eliminate food waste, improve energy efficiency and reduce refrigerant emissions. They are deployed across restaurants, retailers, and distributors. Their customers include Starbucks Now Foods and Marriott Hotels. Previously Manik co-founded the governance lab and innovation center at NYU that develops technology solutions to improve government. He has been recognized among the top 100 Harvard alumni in technology and previously held possessions at a global investment firm and the white house national economic council.
You have quite the history from Harvard to an investment firm involvement with NYU and the white house now at Therma. So I wonder, is this a path that you plan for yourself? Did you always want to leverage business for.
I was always interested in in ways to be interdisciplinary, but never imagined this would be the path. I think that there’s a certain way in which life unfolds, where you’re kind of taking twists and turns and don’t necessarily know where the road is taking you, but when you look back in the rear view mirror, it all kind of makes sense. So I think there was a lot of serendipity along the way.
And when I was in school, I was always excited about ways to bring disciplines together. So I studied government and economics at Harvard, undergrad got interested in foreign policy. And then later on in, in investing I did a masters at Cambridge in England as a scholar from Harvard and ultimately ended up in finance at a big private equity and hedge fund.
One of the largest. A place called DE Shaw working for the gentleman who ran the firm that was my first job out of school. And I got firsthand exposure to the intersection of business and politics. I was working on investing in emerging markets in particular and focused on India and China.
And I was living in Asia for a couple of years, doing that and realized that these sectors are extremely interconnected. And that got me interested in ways to leverage businesses for good. And we used to leverage the power of capitalism, which is a real power but to, advance social impact and not just to create profit.
And that’s how I ended up going back to school. So I decided to go back to law school after differing for five years and went to Harvard for law school right in the kind of early days of the financial crisis and the first Obama administration. And that’s how I ended up on a path towards.
I guess you could say I’m doing good and doing well.
It’s interesting to hear about your journey Was having a positive social or sustainable impact something you desired at an early stage or early age, or was this something that came to you later?
I was always interested in social impact. Climate was not as much on my mind or a lot of my classmates minds when we were in school growing up. I think people weren’t talking about it in the same way early al gore and, others who were kind of early on the climate crisis, we’re trying to get people to focus on the topic. And it was definitely a small group of people that was thinking of. I did always have an interest in, nature and in the environment and certainly social impact. But I didn’t imagine that climate would be the crisis it’s become in our generation.
I think when I was growing up, we always thought it would be something that people would be dealing with 50 or 80 years from now. And , I grew up in California a few hours from San Francisco where I live and there are wildfires now that get to within 35 miles of my parents. There are mudslides and rainstorms and all kinds of weather events happening across nor Cal and of course across the country in the world.
But it’s very personal for those of us living in places like Northern California. So I think in the last five years, sustainability has really taken on a different , urgency and climate has become a topic that no one can avoid. And so, yeah, I would say I was very much interested in social media.
I came from a family that was very service oriented. My parents are both doctors. Three of my grandparents are doctors. My wife and my brother are physicians had a lot of , people working in, in medicine and healthcare and government in my family. But climate is definitely something that I’ve tend to started focusing on the last few years.
I also live in Northern California. I went to high school in Cupertino and I’ve spent the last 30 years here. I have known for the entirety of that time that the climate crisis was real and coming. So I just think we all got fed a line by so many different politicians about the reality of what was happening with our climate, that the inconvenient truth that Al Gore was trying to share with the world it still got swept under the carpet by many who argued his work was merely inflammatory, partisan, and not based in real science.
And of course, what we’re finding is that his pitch work with The Inconvenient Truth was really quite conservative. Things are going to get far worse than we had even suspected they would, and faster. So instead of standing on my soapbox and screaming at the sky, I I started this podcast.
What intrigues me about what you’re doing with Therma is you’re attacking something. We all need to be a little bit more concerned with, which is energy consumption. Because even if we convert everything to a renewable resource, there are still pieces of the emission chain that are going to be more challenging to address, including things like food storage and keeping perishables cool in transit.
So talk to me about what Therma is doing to address this concern.
Absolutely. And kudos to you, Corinna, for being early and even prescient, focusing your energies around sustainability and and trying to build toward a more regenerative economy and model. I think many more people are now taking note and need to, frankly, everyone needs to be focused on this issue.
At Therma, the startup that I’ve founded and run, we’re really laser focused around one source of emissions. And and there are many reasons why this is a source of emissions, but it’s behind the scenes seemingly not that interesting problems, which is refrigeration, right? Refrigeration has been around for 150 years and it’s basically run the same way that it was run a hundred years ago.
And that’s great for refrigeration manufacturers, but it’s not necessarily working as a smart asset.
There’s a huge amount of inefficiency in refrigeration. There are, a hundred million refrigeration units in the business world. And 1.4 billion refrigerators and refrigeration units in the commercial and consumer world.
And what we’re looking at is the huge amounts of waste that come from refrigeration being unmonitored. That lack of monitoring means that a lot of stuff gets thrown out and spoiled because of power issues because of human error, because of equipment failures. So there’s food waste and product waste, that’s a big driver of emissions.
#1: Food waste in aggregate is about, 3% or 4% of all emissions. And a third of all food that gets made gets thrown out. So it’s just a big area of waste and refrigeration is part of the problem.
#2: The second is energy refrigeration consumes a huge amount of energy, 15% of electricity is consumed by refrigeration, which is a massive amount.
And a lot of that is under optimized. There’s over cooling in some cases, cooling at times of day and times of year where, peak demand is happening, but don’t need to so there’s a lot of inefficiency in the way energy is consumed in refrigeration.
#3: The third source of emissions from refrigeration is the chemicals that go into the refrigerators to make cooling, which is the. These are ultra warming chemicals that cause a thousand to 10,000 times more warming than CO2 when they get released and they get released when refrigeration goes down or when it dies.
And so in total, refrigeration’s responsible for, five to 6% of all warming because of the food. Energy waste and refrigerant waste that’s happening across these millions and millions of units. We’re trying to use technology to reduce that problem. We’re using IOT or internet of things, sensors, data science, and data analytics and cloud and mobile technologies that allow you to get real-time visibility into your assets and let you change settings that lets you catch loss events that help you avoid.
Turning a dumb asset into something smarter and more sustainable. And so we think of Therma as a smart refrigeration or clean, cooling platform. That’s our goal is to kind of enable smarter refrigeration and clean cooling.
And when we talk about something like clean cooling, we’re referring mostly to foods here, right? Like you’re not talking about air conditioning units and things along those.
Well, there’s different kinds of cooling equipment. There’s two big kinds. There’s refrigeration. And then there’s HPAC, which is air conditioned. Today. We’re fully focused on refrigeration and even within refrigeration, Corinna, there’s two different supply chains, there’s food and there’s pharmaceuticals.
Those are the big food chains out there. We’re focused almost entirely on food, though we have done a little bit of work in pharma, and there’s obviously a lot of need and opportunity there. You only need to look at the news around COVID-19 vaccine delivery we realize how important culture is for pharma, but right now, as a small, early stage company, we’re in year two of a multi-decade journey.
We’re focused on the food supply. And specifically the refrigeration closest to the fork, meaning stuff, that’s down the supply chain, close to where we eat things, restaurants, convenience stores hotels, supermarkets, cafeterias, et cetera.
So are you also working on things like a hello, fresh meal kit delivery systems and things along those lines? Because one of the primary reasons that I don’t advocate for a meal kit deliveries has to do with the. Amount of waste that comes with them. Because those cool packs that they include are both heavy, which means they take more CO2 to deliver to your door. And they also of course, have to be shipped in a cool truck otherwise it’ll melt, especially in the summer and you’ll have spoilage of food.
We haven’t done any work with the meal delivery company as yet, but we do work with a number of online grocery and e-commerce companies that have, an older fashioned, a version where they have cold storage, distribution centers and warehouses, where they’re storing product for delivery to consumers.
So we’re trying to help them reduce their energy consumption and reduce their spoilage in the warehouses and distribution centers. Therma is not operating on moving objects. We’re not working on. trucks, trains and ships today. So we’re focused on stationary. Again, refrigeration’s massive, a trillion dollars worth of product moved through refrigeration every year.
And there are hundreds of millions of these units. We’ve chosen to focus on the stationary stuff closest. Zoomers where there’s a lot of avoidable waste, a lot of low-hanging fruit, but I hear you. And I agree. There’s a lot of inefficiency and also in some cases, just lack of sustainability and some of the newer models it needs to be worked on.
They say they’re tackling food waste and I have a hard time understanding how that comes into play with the whole picture when you consider shipping directly to your door and having just a few meals worth of food, versus what you might get, when you go to the grocery store to complete a week’s worth of shopping. There’s a lot of questions that it raises for me personally. And then also just thinking about all those extra little plastic bits that get shipped with it because everything’s in a single serve. Like I had soy sauce with a hello, fresh delivery because I just wanted to try it and see. They sent six individual soy sauce is made of these little, they looked like little fish and I just thought this:
“It’s SO wasteful! These are single use plastic bits and they will end up right in the trash!”
I would much rather buy my one glass bottle of soy sauce to have in my refrigerator and use for recipes for weeks and weeks down the road. So my little complaint about meal delivery kits.
Yeah. I hear you. I think every business needs to be looking at, what they’re doing, not just with the, , the messaging, but the actual value drivers. And the way in which products and services get delivered, , if you want to take sustainability seriously I definitely hear that a concern.
So what are you most excited about within this business presently?
I think the market response is really exciting. We started working on Therma two years ago, right before the pandemic hit. And very few companies were working on refrigeration with a kind of modern approach. Let’s use technology from the 21st century. Let’s use IOT. Let’s use data science to make refrigeration smarter.
I have a lot of friends in tech and a lot of friends in venture capital. Very few of them are thinking about refrigeration. So it’s exciting to see how companies, whether they’re small businesses or national brands seem to get value from a simple, lightweight solution like Therma.
Therma is a drop in place sensor with a mobile app and a web app. And it’s designed to be self-installed. So, an 18 year old summer worker or associate can get the system set up in a location. I think what’s encouraging is that despite all of the challenges that food and hospitality and retail have faced businesses are looking for ways to save money and do it in ways that are pro-social.
And I think that’s really what we focused on, which is especially as a for-profit company, can we align profitability with sustainability? Is there a way to help businesses either make money or save money and do it in ways that are good for the community? That’s the way I think, to have a real impact as a, as a, as a product driven approach, , as opposed to say a regulatory or a non-profit or activist model.
So for us, what’s been exciting is the speed at which people have started adopting the solution and the kinds of brains we’re working with smaller.
I saw on your customer list, McDonald’s Starbucks. Of course, they all have refrigeration units and in some cases they have refrigerated trucks that are actually delivering products as well. I’m just curious to see what the extent of your integration with them is, when you say you’re close to the consumer.
Exactly. We’re focused on the last stage of the supply chain, which is the stationary objects that hold product. And there’s a lot of them. There’s 80 million of them that are almost entirely unmonitored today. You’d be hard pressed to find a refrigeration unit in a Starbucks. And McDonald’s a pizza hut, a Taco Bell, Domino’s, a White Castle. Those are all customers that are monitoring with real-time data today because the tech wasn’t available until a couple of years.
You couldn’t use legacy technology, wifi, and Bluetooth to get a signal out of refrigerator. It would drop the side of the fridge, the iron or steel side, active like a Faraday cage and blocked the signal from getting out. And so we’ve been able to solve for that in ways that make it possible to get very low cost monitoring in place.
The, in the past you had to use a wired sensor and wiring a fridge or freezer means drilling a hole through this. It’s really expensive to have technicians come out and drill lines through the side of the refrigeration. So the only people that would do that were people that had ultra high value inventory and lots of it, hospitals blood banks, fertility.
But almost no one beyond very, very large and high value inventory holders would, would do it. And that’s the vast majority of refrigeration. So your supermarkets and restaurants, convenience stores, cafeterias are pretty much unmonitored. And I think that’s, what’s encouraging.
We’re essentially racing to make these dumb assets smarter.
I look at a company or a product like nest , on the, on the air conditioning side, they’re obviously in a different space. They’re working in consumer. And they’re working in air conditioning,. That’s something we’re trying to do, go from monitoring to create intelligence.
You don’t have to run refrigeration at the same temperature every single day of the year. You don’t have to run a refrigeration unit at the same setting in the summer in LA, as in the winter in Boston, but most people have a set and forget, , almost everyone in the world runs refrigeration 24 7.
Set the set point and leave it. And we think there are ways to shave time off of that. Maybe you can run refrigeration less than 24 7, 23 7. You can use pre-cooling and load-shedding to change when refrigeration is yacht. So it doesn’t have to be running at the most expensive times or, as a California you’ll appreciate whenever PG&E has to implement rolling brownouts or blackouts as the grid starts setting.
No, those are wind outs. I mean, I’m here in Santa Cruz county. I’m far close to. The fires then your family is we got evacuated for 10 days last September because of the proximity to the CZU fire complex in Santa Cruz. And so, yes the brown outs, the blackouts, the whatever you want to call them when the wind blows PG&E has shut my power off for as many as six or seven days.
And so that’s a long time to do without power when you still have to work and often from home and take care of your kids. I mean, it’s, it’s been rough and I don’t foresee this problem going away anytime soon. Unfortunately, I had to rely on my generator, which is propane fueled. My solar panels, which feed up the wire to PGNE, we’re no longer feeding up the wire to PG&E because PG&E shut off the power.
So, it’s been a struggle. Like I am seriously contemplating going completely off the grid or at least to the point where our solar panels are not feeding up the line. They’re feeding to a storage packs that we can then use for this. Season or two or three or five or 10 that we’re likely to encounter because it’s not going to stop being windy and it’s not going to stop being dry at least for a while.
Definitely. I think that the opportunity is so real. I grew up by the way, Corinna in Fresno, in the central valley. So we used to go camping and we used to go hiking in , the Sierras kind of up the hill, about an hour’s drive away. I was hiking last summer in Shaver Lake with my parents two weeks before Shaver and Huntington, essentially.
The whole area burned because of the fires there. And that’s about 35 miles, 32 miles from my parents’ house, I feel very convinced. And I think you would agree that we need solutions to improve flexibility of the grid so that we don’t have. Brown outs and wind outs.
And so we don’t have grid stresses and Therma an opportunity for a company like Therma is really to help get businesses, to participate in grid-edge flexibility.
If we can figure out ways to monitor refrigeration and manage it so it can be turned down or turned off for short intervals. We’re not talking about many, many hours at a time. But if we could do this for a short burst, during peak load events that helps improve grid flexibility, it gives load and gives capacity back to be used for businesses. That’s part of our vision and our kind of work is oriented toward, which is okay. We’re monitoring refrigeration.
We’re doing it in ways that reduce waste. We’ve already got metrics to show loss of. But if we can move into not just monitoring, but helping to optimize and manage, we might be able to reduce when and how the energy layer of these assets gets consumed. So that’s part of the clean cooling.
To your point, that would be much more useful in situations like what was faced in Texas earlier this year, last year in February 2021, or March 20, 21 when they were without power, because they had a crazy ice storm and everyone had to turn their heaters on and suddenly they had blackouts because their power utility couldn’t handle the demand. And so for things like that, I completely agree. It won’t solve the wind issue — so we either need to send cables underground or build micro grids or do something else. But the solutions that have been proposed as far by PGNE have been lackluster in my humble opinion.
Definitely won’t weigh in on PG&E’s behalf, but I, I hear you. I think that the. And the different ways in which grids are getting overwhelmed are only going to continue to rise. Fortunately I think, , now putting the kind of regulatory hat on a lot of utilities are adopting and a lot of regional power markets are adopting grid, flexibility programs, ways to help use a load at peak times and they’re paying businesses and consumers to do so.
So several startups are working in this space as well on, on different areas, on consumer homes, on HVHC. Um, And I think there’s a lot of opportunity but , it’s going to take many different solutions to solve the problem. We’re just one of them.
Yeah. It’s kind of an ecosystem play at the end of the day? I applaud the effort. I know that it’s like all hands on deck from every angle possible, right? So, if we can attack refrigeration issues from a tech perspective, make them more efficient, reduce energy load usage, then guess what? We’re not drawing as much power. The power can go further.
Ultimately if we can figure out new ways to refrigerate that don’t use the same kind of resources, I think that might be even better, but. , another technology play further down the road we can hopefully get to.
I think that’s, that’s spot on and , it’s always kind of a mix of , working with what you have and trying to imagine the future.
I think the other thing about refrigeration that’s so compelling is it’s growing so fast. It’s an extremely fast growing sector. So much of the world does not have refrigeration or not. Doesn’t have enough refrigeration. So refrigeration is growing at like 15 to 18%. CAGR combining a growth in globally and many, many parts of the world are going to have a lot more refrigeration in 5, 10, 20, 30 years.
And that’s part of the problem. If it’s already a big source of emissions and growing massively in Latin America, Africa, Asia, we have to make this infrastructure. If we want to avoid a compounding, the problem we’re already grappling with. And that’s, that’s part of the reason I think , I got excited about working in this.
Yeah, well, Manik, your Harvard was showing with the CAGR reference. I thought people might misunderstand what that is. This is not generally speaking a business podcast. So compound annual growth rate as what “Kager” stands for. And it just means that the growth is continuing and it’s continuing at a rapid pace.
And so we see the trend kind of looking like a line upwards. And so there’s more attention on this particular sphere. And, as we’re solving. Refrigeration challenges if we don’t fix them. So that they’re more efficient along the way. Then the increase in demand across the board just means we have to produce that much more energy.
And if we have to produce that much more energy on a global scale than we’re back in this extractive world where we’re going to worsen problems, because another country around the globe is like, oh great. We have resources now to refrigerate stuff. And we’re going to consume all this energy and guess what they pollute there too.
And that pollution. It compounds the issue. So we do need to be concerned with what’s happening in south America and in Africa and in Eastern Europe and all over the place, because it’s a global system. Now, if there was a question that I haven’t asked that you wish I had, perhaps, what might that be?
And if there is one, please answer it.
That’s such a great question. I think a question, , that I, I always wish I’d gotten more time to think about is , if you weren’t doing what you’re doing now, what would you be doing? What, what’s the, what’s the other alternate life path, which we can never know fully, but it’s something I think about sometimes.
You’d probably be a doctor.
I decided very early in my life that I didn’t like blood and I volunteered in the local hospital because I come from a family of doctors and I realized I couldn’t do it.
So you’re the black sheep,
I went to law school. When you have a family of doctors, you go to law school.
But no, I I definitely, think about regulatory and political and policy challenges. I did a short stint in government, but a lot of my friends work in government. My sister-in-law’s working in the current administration in the white house on, legal policy. Definitely see a lot of people on that side of the equation, trying to make things better.
And I think that, as a business person today, you can’t have innovation in a vacuum and expect to solve the sustainability crisis or any other social problem.
I think a lot about policy and regulatory aspects to these. And, , as a former lawyer with a number of friends who work in government, I often think about, well, how do we solve these problems? Both from outside the system and within the system. And we need, I think people working on the outside trying to innovate, trying to use technology and use the power of story telling as an example of telling, , consumers and individuals, how to shape the future, but we also need good rules of the road.
We need great frameworks and regulatory models that can actually see. And so I think any of these solutions around big social problems, like sustainability require coordination between the different sides. And sometimes it can feel like we’re, , we’re talking past each other, those of us working on the outside, those people working on the inside of the system.
But I think trying to find ways to bridge those. And that’s certainly a topic I think a lot about and and wonder about,
Well, there’s still time. You could live that life as a, who knows the next 20 years after after you’re done making Therma the next big thing. But what I will say is that it takes a brave soul, probably braver than me and more diplomatic to work on that political side of the world, because it’s just, you have to Wade through so much.
I don’t want to say it’s baloney, but you have to wade through a lot of red tape when you sometimes I think see a solution that could be right in line, but there’s so much you have to get through in order to actually get the change to take effect on a political level, but we need all hands on deck.
And so if you decide that you’re that brave person that wants to take on that challenge and be in politics again, one day, I’m sure we could use all the allies we can get in that field.
And I appreciate that. It’s definitely not for the faint of heart.
It’s balancing on a knife said you have to keep all your constituents in line and understand what the people want versus what the politics of the situation will allow. So I think that’s just, it’s a hard balance. It’s a very hard balance. That’s something I spend a fair amount of time thinking.
It’s hard to judge from the outside. It’s like, okay, well, I, I’ve seen a little bit of what it’s like behind the scenes and politics, and it’s enough to make me understand the challenge that they’re working through and how if we sit here and say, oh, well, if I was there, I would do it so much better.
It’s like, oh, you know, you get into it. And then you realize what system you’re in.
Yup. Not that simple in our system. Definitely doesn’t make it easy to create massive change quickly and well.
Well, if there’s a thought you’d like to leave our audience with what would it be?
Don’t don’t give up on the dream. I think that people like yourself Corina, who’ve been working on these hard problems for years and years. And I think sustainability and climate is about as hard a problem as any one could possibly work on. It’s not easily solvable. There’s no one solution. It takes coordinated action. It takes concerted action. It’s going to require sacrifice and change and creativity and curiosity. Those kinds of problems are really, really hard. And it’s very easy to lose faith and to say, Hey, what am I. I gotta do something else in my life. And I just encourage everyone. I say this to myself every day. Okay. Just because it’s hard doesn’t mean it’s not worth it. And so I guess the thing I would say both to myself and to anyone listening, especially to your your listener. Now don’t give up. I think I feel excited by the kind of people I work with and the quality and caliber of people that I see working on sustainability and climate these days, it’s just an exceptional community coming together.
And I think more and more people every day are joining the movement. So here’s to a better future and a better 20, 22.
Great. I think that’s a perfect note on which to land now. Where can our listeners go to find out more about you, and all Therma does?
I appreciate that. If you’re interested in checking us out I’d be glad to share more details offline.
You can check our website out. Hello, therma.com. That’s hello, T H E R M a.com. Feel free to message me. It’s firstname.lastname@example.org. We’re hiring, we’ve got a dozen open roles. We’re basing the barrier, but we’re also hiring remote. And we absolutely would love to talk to anyone.
Who’s looking at smart refrigeration who cares about climate and food and ways to protect human health and the planet’s health. And thanks so much for the opportunity to be are Corina.
Great to have you. Thank you so much now, as always, I’ll be sure to include links to the items we discussed in show notes.
Now it’s time for me to do what I always do at the end of this show, which is invite all of you to act. It could be as simple as just sharing this podcast with people in your community that you think could benefit from it. And a great way to do that is just, grab their phone, add it to their playlist, go ahead and find it on their favorite podcasting platform and download.
That way, they’re sure to actually have access to it. And remember it. Now you can also go ahead and visit hello, therma.com and find out more about their company. If you’re looking for work and want to be in this field, it sounds like they’ve got a lot open over there as well. So that’s really, really great.
For other ideas and suggestions for actions that you can take. I encourage you to visit dot com. I include comprehensive show notes. There links to everything that we talk about as well as some really great articles and other stories that you can review. You can explore our blog, other podcasts on topics like this one, and just lean into discovery.
Stay curious, ask questions. Get involved. Thank you now. And always for being a part of this pod and this community, because together we really can do so much more. We can care more and we can be better. We can even regenerate earth. Thank you.