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Create Social Change and Influence People for Greater Diversity, Equity and Inclusion with Nancy Murphy

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Have you struggled, navigating difficult and changing situations in your personal or professional life? In this interview, we connect with Nancy Murphy, founder and president of CSR Communications to learn how we can more effectively navigate change, especially as it relates to shifting dynamics at work, where we spend a bulk of our time.

We learn about the many pitfalls we confront, and how our actions directly or indirectly impact resistance to change. She shares how embracing change and being a “change hero” can lead to more success,  and greater acceptance. If you are pushing for more diversity, more equity, and more inclusion — then you’ll want to hear this episode. 

Time Stamps: 

00:00 Introduction

02:45 What is an “intrapreneur”?

05:05 Raphael Bemporad’s “The Future We Want” Podcast 

07:07 The Campaigner’s Commitment & The Power of Repetition

08:00 Cross Collaboration As A Key For Positive Influence and Change

10:00 Be A Hero of Change – Influence People

12:00 Grand Gestures vs. Credible Action

16:25 Three Common Types of Resistance to Change

20:00 The Magic of Encountering Resistance

22:00 The Power of Listening

22:50 Credible Leaders = Curious Leaders, The Power of Remaining Open

24:57 Psychological Trigger: Threat to Autonomy

26:45 The Impact of 9/11, Activating Community Engagement, Philanthropic Efforts, and Social Change

29:00 The Importance of Volunteering, Partnerships, and Following Through

35:28 Atlas Corps 501(c)3 

36:30 One Way To Be More Influential

About Our Guest: Nancy Murphy, Founder of CSR Communications

Nancy Murphy is the founder and president of CSR Communications and the creator of the Intrapreneurs Influence Lab. She spent her career career saying what others are afraid to – and learning to say it in ways that others will listen. She now shares that skill and other influence techniques to help leaders make organizational change that sticks. She serves as a board member of Atlas Corps, an international network of social sector leaders and organizations that promotes innovation, cooperation, and solutions to address the world’s 21st-century challenges. 

Intrapreneurs Insights Paper on Diversity, Equity and Inclusion: 

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[00:00:00] Corinna Bellizzi: Hello, fellow do-gooders and friends. I’m your host Corinna Bellizzi, an activist and cause marketer that’s passionate about social impact and sustainability. As we commenced today’s show, I want you to think about terms like diversity, equity and inclusion. How do you see these concepts play out in your daily life?

Do you see improvements or do you feel like we’re lagging behind. Today we’re going to connect deeply with an intrepreneur and an agent of change. Nancy Murphy. together, we’ll tease out how persistent practice can lead to changes that really stick.

 Today marks our 40th interview. We’ve been on this journey for over nine months, and I must admit as a listener supported podcast, one that prefers to remain ad-free. I have to get smarter about asking for your support. If you could help me reach the simple goal of covering show costs, that would be amazing.

We can achieve this two ways through ongoing Patreon support and one-time donation. If you’re able to support the show, even with as little as $2 a month, we can commit to keeping our content ad free for the long-term to make a contribution, just visit or click the donate button on our website

in future episodes, I’ll call out new members and each quarter I’ll choose a featured charity with your help that we commit to support. I’ll always take recommendations for charities that you want to see featured. And who knows at charity you refer could even end up being featured as a guest on CareMore.

I’m thrilled to introduce you to our 40th guest, Nancy Murphy, she’s the founder and president of CSR communications and creator of intrepreneurs influence lab. Nancy spent her career saying what others are afraid to and learning to say it in a way that they will actually listen. She now shares that skill and other influence techniques to help leaders make organizational change.

That sticks Nancy mentors and advises, executives from local. Federal agencies, global non-profits and even fortune 100 companies. Nancy, welcome to the

[00:02:06] Nancy Murphy: show. Thank you so much for having me Corrina.

[00:02:10] Corinna Bellizzi: I’m just so glad you’re here today and really could use some help with this subject. Anyways, first I’d love for you to share your answer to a simple question.

What does it mean to be an intrepreneur? And why did you decide that this was the job?

[00:02:26] Nancy Murphy: An intrepreneur is someone who brings entrepreneurial spirit and innovation to change established organizations from within. So while entrepreneurs sort of go outside institutions and systems to disrupt their.

Intrepreneurs stay inside the organizations and systems and disrupt them from that perspective. And I like to think of these folks as the unsung heroes of organizational change, because they’re the ones who focus on the small sustained strategic action that actually gets change to see. And I chose to focus on this group for two reasons.

Number one, because I spent so much of my career as an entrepreneur, as that internal change agent who was beating my head against the wall and you know, that Sisyphean task of pushing the rock up the hill and having it just roll back down on top of you. And I learned the hard way. What works and what doesn’t.

And I wanted to share those lessons with others, so could, so that they could avoid some of the mistakes that I made. And secondly, when we think about. , so many of the guests that you’ve had on your show are talking about big social change, right? Making the world a better place. And when we do that outside of the large institutions and organizations, it’s just going to take so much longer.

But imagine if we could get, you know, an Exxon mobile to be more environmentally sustainable. So if we can support these intrepreneurs who are. Moving the resources, the reach, the scope, the scale, the expertise of these existing organizations to be more innovative, more sustainable, more equitable. Well, my gosh, we can have the world we want so much faster.

[00:04:25] Corinna Bellizzi: Well, okay. So you reminded me of another branding agency I’ve worked with over the years in two ways and that simple. First you’re working with companies that may be non-traditional to the social change perspective. And the second you said the future. And so I’m going to stop there for a second because Rafael, Ben barod, he is a good friend of mine.

I’ve worked with him on several branding projects. Over the years, he has an agency out of New York city called BBMG and he started a podcast called the future we want, which is all about essentially trying to change a lot of these companies from the inside. And I remember a few years ago he was working for some vodka company and I’m like, Raphael.

Like a vodka, like what’s the story here? And he’s like, look, , the change has to come from within all of these companies. Otherwise, what difference are we really. And so some of the projects he’s now working on are with big retailers, like target, helping them to become a more eco-friendly and socially conscious company from the inside out.

And so there is real lasting change happening, , from companies like that to Anheuser Busch or AB and Bev, as they’re otherwise known all over, , really from. These brands that we all know, like they are mass market companies. And there is some really positive change happening within them.

So as we’re commencing this learning together, I would love for you to share what some of those mistakes have been, because he said, Hey, I’d like them to learn from my mistakes. Like, even if there’s just one that comes to mind, like this was really a challenge that I faced that I’ve helped a lot of others kind of navigate through.

[00:06:05] Nancy Murphy: Yeah, well, I guess I’ll share two common ones that come to mind. So one is this idea that we can proclaim our vision for change once and be done, right? Like it’s been in our heads for so long. We’ve been thinking about, you know, kind of mapping out and we get so excited and we’re ready to introduce it to our team or to our board or.

To our boss and we sort of put it out there and go, great. Aren’t you on board? And now I’ve said it, go make it happen. And it doesn’t work that way. So I often talk about the need for the campaigners commitment. How do we think about ourselves as the candidate on the campaign trail? Who must give our stump speech over and over and over with the same level of enthusiasm.

And, , here hear the questions and the resistance and the challenges as if it were the first time someone’s ever pushed back on us in that way. And so the mistake is we think we’ve reclaimed at once and we’re done. And, you know, we know we need to hear things millions of times before we fully absorb them, understand them and let alone be ready to act.

So that’s a big one. The, the, the other one is going it alone. , think about these organizations or companies that might have thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of employees or customers around the world. And one person thinking that they have to be entirely responsible for carrying the burden for change, instead of thinking about, okay, how do I.

Start small, find those circle of champions or co-creators create the ripple effect, use them to carry the message across, use them to gather input and feedback and advice and data about what’s working. And what’s not, what’s resonating. What’s not, what’s getting in the way of people doing the thing we want them to do.

And so going in alone can be a long, painful journey, but being willing to. Invite people in and have them shape and sort of be those co-creators of the change with you is what really makes them.

[00:08:11] Corinna Bellizzi: Well, and there’s something else that comes with that too. Right? You’re developing cross-functional team building skills, which is, I think ever more important in the work environment, especially if you want to end up in a leadership role, because you have to be able to collaborate with people across different.

And it’s one of the key ways that you can really get a following behind you, so to speak, can you can lead for change so completely agree, seeing it and experience. And I think that’s really valuable feedback. So let’s get back to really the, this basic concept. Why should we really care about change in the office?

[00:08:50] Nancy Murphy: Well, I think if anyone hasn’t been living under a rock for the last, , 18 months, we’re in a period where change is going to happen, whether we like it or not. So a lot of times I’m working with leaders who are kind of proactively driving change, but I think regardless of whether we want change or instigating change or not change is happening to us and around.

So I think it’s important for leaders to understand how. Help people navigate the challenges of change. How do we create a mindset where we’re not afraid of change, where change can actually be positive? Because those leaders, those teams, those organizations that can. Adapt that aren’t looking to always improve, to stay relevant, to be the heroes and sheroes of change in the world, I think are going to quickly become irrelevant or we’ll sort of sink under the weight of their own status quo in this.

And so the word change in the workplace is. Just a fact of life right now, so we can either embrace it, make it work for us, use it to drive the change we want in the world, or we can sort of sink under the weight of the refusal to appreciate that.

[00:10:15] Corinna Bellizzi: Great. So we talked at the commencement of the show about diversity, equity and inclusion.

They’ve become big buzzwords of this social movement of today. And, , a lot of companies proclaimed them now to be values, but may not necessarily be walking the walk that they need to walk. And this is something I talked about and one of my very first episodes for this podcast, when I interviewed Genevieve Smith and we dove into it.

And it can be really uncomfortable. So I wouldn’t want to talk for a moment just about what it takes to kind of move from the aspirational values perspective into walking the walk so that it can actually become endemic to an organization where diversity, equity and inclusion are more than buzzing. And employees are felt they feel it as valued as the next one.

Even if they might have some sort of a disability or B of a minority of for at least that company.

[00:11:17] Nancy Murphy: Yeah. So one of the things that I teach for all areas of organiz organizational change, and I think it’s especially relevant in this context is that grand gesture. Proclamations, press conferences, big commitments are maybe necessary, but they’re not enough to get the change you want.

So we have to balance the grand gestures with those small strategic sustained action that make the grand gestures real. And I think a lot of times we get so focused on the big proclamation and the celebration of that. And standing behind the podium at the press conference that we forget. All the little things that we need to pay attention to that will actually make that proclamation credible.

And so I encourage organizations again in all areas of organizational change, but I’ve recently published an insights paper on this diversity equity, inclusion, belonging, justice, anti-racism , all of the terms. So many organizations have made big proclamations around recently to look at that grand gesture, small strategic action balance in that context.

And so a couple of things that came out of that, that I think really any listener could pay attention to and incorporate in their own organization. One is sometimes there are what I call artifacts, all the little things we leave behind as we move forward with organizational change that tell us who and what we value, what matters and how things really get done around here.

And they often conflict with the change. So how do we go on an archeological dig, , put on our Indiana Jones gear and those searching.

[00:13:15] Corinna Bellizzi: You’re speaking to a girl who wanted to be Indiana Jones as a kid. Girls can be

[00:13:20] Nancy Murphy: Indiana Jones too. So, , how do we go on that quest? How do we make it, , a passion, our mission to not just proclaim the change we want, but look for all those little things that might be sending signals in conflict.

With the change where we’ve proclaimed. And if we don’t address those artifacts, if we don’t see where they’re hidden, unearth them, replace them with new ones that are aligned well, there’s all sorts of risk. Number one, we can’t erode. Right because we’ve proclaimed that this big thing we’re going to have 50% of our leaders, executive leaders be women by 20, 25.

Yet you come into the organization and there’s all sorts of signals about needing to work around the clock to get promoted, or to really succeed in the organization like shout outs at staff meetings, right. Where we celebrate. The people who have worked around the clock or made personal sacrifices to get the job done and put the team first.

And so there can be little things like that there, where people are like, um, I don’t believe you. So you might say one thing, but my experience is something different. The other way, these cause a problem is if the artifacts are all designed to support one way of doing things or one kind of culture, and now you’re asking people to do something different.

It’s confusing. Number one, but number two. Ridiculously hard. Right? So they want to do the right thing, but now you’ve made it so hard for them to do it, that they just give up or get frustrated.

[00:15:02] Corinna Bellizzi: I mean, this is what I referred to as the well-worn paths. Right. It’s you might have executives. Who’ve been in those roles for a long time and they see things where communicating.

That’s not the way things are done around here, or we do things this way and are resistant to even trying something new. So I’m really curious to hear you talk about how you deal with that resistance in particular, like let’s say you’ve got a legacy employee who’s been around for a long time and has a significant level of power that they can wield within the.

[00:15:33] Nancy Murphy: Yeah. So I talk about three common types of resistance to change. And so I’ll start with the yes. Knowers. So these are the people who sit in the team meeting, sit in your office, your, , explaining the change, what needs to happen before. There. Yeah. Yeah. They’re all on board. Right. Then they walk out and they do the exact opposite. And so part of that

[00:15:57] Corinna Bellizzi: a few times, right.

[00:16:00] Nancy Murphy: We’ve all seen this center and it’s really frustrating because you think you’ve got their support and then you’re like, wait a minute. Why you said you were on board. So one of the things we need to figure out with that type of resistance to change is, is it a lack of will or a lack of.

So it might be a lack of, will I call this subtype? The stallers so it’s the legacy employee who’s been there forever. They know you’re not going to get rid of them because they have so much institutional knowledge. They’ve been there long before you got there and they will be there long after you get frustrated and leave.

So they’re just going to wait you out. And so for that one, we have to have consequences, right? There need to be clear you’re onboard or you’re not. And if you’re not, these are the concepts. And they have to be consequences that matter to that person. And they have to be clearly articulated. If it’s a lack of will, it might be that there are sorry, if it’s a lack of way, it might be that there are some of those artists.

Right. That are getting in the way of them doing what it is, what it is that they want to do. They’re onboard. They totally believe it. It’s just that we’ve made it too hard for them to do it. Or maybe they need some training or some skill building, because this is a totally new area. And again, they want to do it.

They just need some support to be able to do that. So that’s the first type, those yes. Knowers and what we can do to overcome. The second type are the status quo defenders, right? So these are the people who, well, if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it, or this is the way we’ve always done it. Right. Their identity in a lot of cases is tied to the status.

And that can be because perhaps they were the ones who this could be true for your legacy employee too. Right? Maybe they were the one who created the current system, or they were the one who really contributed significantly to the current culture and they see it so closely tied to their identity that when we criticize it, they perceive it as a criticism of them.

So we have to be really careful with. And the way to overcome that type of resistance is to, , invite them, to identify the things that we should protect and preserve as we move forward. So give them some clear criteria, but you know, you’re probably not upending everything entirely. So let them identify the things that will continue to serve the organization and serve the change.

And you want to make sure to carry those for. And then the third type of resistance to change are the whatevers, right? We’ve probably all heard these folks to the, oh my gosh. If we create hiring criteria for diversity, we’re gonna lose all of our bet. We’re not going to get the best talent or we’re going to create a system that’s unfair.

Oh my gosh. If we try to have a more sustainable supply chain, we’ll, we’re gonna have to charge so much for our products that no one’s going to buy them. Right. So they are those dooms day, yours. They go to the deepest, darkest place. So. The best way to overcome that type of resistance to change is to, first of all, realize that if you’re someone who’s overly optimistic about change or, , super excited about it, you might have some things you’re not seeing.

And you need these folks to help prevent you from unnecessarily damaging or putting the organization at risk. So invite them to do scenario planning, invite them, to play to their strength and go to the deepest, darkest place of the absolute worst thing that could happen. And how likely is that really to happen?

Okay. Well maybe it’s 50% likely. Okay. Well what would we do if that did right. And then put some of those mitigation factors in.

[00:19:53] Corinna Bellizzi: So that, , what you’re talking about really is the magic of resistance, because it can help reveal the watch, watch out points that you can then plan around. And if one of your employees is feeling that way, and it’s something that affects the external world, you better believe somebody on the external side is going to have that same level of skepticism.

So if you’re able to attack that , an earlier stage and implement change around that, then even better.

[00:20:19] Nancy Murphy: Absolutely. Yes. One of the things I teach all the time is a mindset shift around resistance. , how can we skip curious about it? How can we try to see what’s underneath it and use it to just like we do strength training or resistance training in the gym, right?

How do we use it to make our ideas for change stronger? How do we use. To make everything better, to communicate more clearly the next time, , or to tweak the idea and make it stronger. And that when we have resistance, that’s overt, we can learn from it and overcome it. When we have resistance, that’s covert that can really be deadly to our change efforts.

So we actually want the resistance to come out because then we can have a conversation and use it to our advantage. So,

[00:21:07] Corinna Bellizzi: what is one of the ways that you identify resistance when you’re working on these projects?

[00:21:13] Nancy Murphy: Well, I mean, typically people will, will tell you, right? So the, the reason that I outlined these three types of resistance to change and what I often teach around them are what are some of the signals?

So you can, what are some of the cue words, right? The things that you can listen for in a conversation that might. Aluminate what type of resistance it is, what’s really underneath it so that you know how to use it. So being a good listener, , if you walk into a town hall meeting or into a team meeting or a zoom , with your team or, or with your entire organization and you talk the entire time.

You’re probably going to see some body language, but you’re not necessarily gonna get to hear the resistance. So being a really good listener is one of the ways that you’ll get that resistance. There are also a bunch of leadership characteristics, , I always start with. To become a credible leader of change.

, it’s not about getting the other people to do what it is you want. That’s where a lot of people start when they’re talking about leading change. Right? The question they come to me with is how do I get everybody to do what it is I want them to do? And I always say, well, it’s actually not about the other people.

Right? Look. So

[00:22:27] Corinna Bellizzi: what inspire them, you can’t control them well. And

[00:22:31] Nancy Murphy: how are you modeling the behavior that you’re asking around change? Right. And are you projecting a sense of openness and curiosity and not you haven’t fallen. So in love with your rigid vision for the future and how you’re going to get there.

Any resistance if someone even asks a question cause they don’t understand, , cause you’ve been living with it in your head maybe for a long time and they’re hearing it for the first time. If we get super defensive in that moment. Well, the resistance is going to shut down and go covert. Right?

Because we’ve now created an environment where people feel like they can’t express a question, a concern or any pushback. Yeah.

[00:23:14] Corinna Bellizzi: And what you’ve actually revealed to something I’ve held as a belief for a long time. And that is. It’s often best. If you’re talking about big change to come with something that’s almost done, not quite baked yet, right?

Like it hasn’t been set in stone. You haven’t stenciled it on the wall yet. You’re coming in and you’re saying, Hey, here’s this initiative or here’s this change you want to put into effect? I know I’m in feedback mode and I want to hear from all of you about what you think and feel, and if there’s something that I haven’t identified or our team hasn’t identified yet.

Give me your feedback and we will take all of that into consideration as we, , bake this into it’s hard for, so

[00:23:59] Nancy Murphy: yeah,

[00:24:01] Corinna Bellizzi: the difference between just strictly top down and collaborative leadership,

[00:24:05] Nancy Murphy: right? Yeah. One of the things I, I share with folks a lot is the five psychological triggers that make change hard.

And one of those is autonomous. So if people feel a threat to their autonomy, to their choice, they’ll react, fight flight or freeze. Right. But you’ll get resistance around that. So how do we create moments in the change effort for people to take back some of that autonomy, right. To feel a sense of choice and the co-creation part where you’re not coming in and saying.

You’re not coming in with the proclamation or the grand gesture of the very loosey goosey vision, and then saying, great, let’s go, right. People need a little bit more of a path. So I loved your description of it. It’s at least partially baked, , and they have 15 minutes of the hour left in the oven, not, , two minutes in, and you’ve got 58 minutes where you’re lost.

So, so give them some little pieces that they can come. To their own choices with, and co-create with. Maybe we

[00:25:11] Corinna Bellizzi: need to think of jello instead.

We’re choosing what fruit we want to put in the jello

[00:25:16] Nancy Murphy: before. It’s all the way hard.

[00:25:18] Corinna Bellizzi: Exactly. No, I’ve just enjoyed this conversation so much thus far, but I also am just really curious. If you could share something from your own success, because I think often inspiration can come from unlikely places.

So I’d love for you to point out , particular thing that you’re proud of. It could be from your personal life or from your professional life related to this topic or not.

[00:25:45] Nancy Murphy: Well, I think, I think the professional achievement that I’m most proud of is something from. 17 years ago now, maybe so in the wake of probably the first year after the nine 11 terrorist attacks.

So I guess we’re coming up on the 20th anniversary of September 11th. In the wake of that, I had been working with ups for a few years on their community engagement and philanthropic efforts and a big part of that was around more effective volunteerism and volunteer engagement. And I’d had some earlier career experience in that area as well.

And one of the things we saw. Around nine 11 were people driving across the country, showing up at the world trade center and the Pentagon wanting to help, right. People wanted to volunteer in that moment because it’s part of how we heal and for a whole variety of reasons. There was nothing for most people to do.

They got turned away. And so not only was that a bad thing, cause there was clearly stuff that needed to get to get done and help that was necessary. But also it, it impacted those people’s ability to heal because they were turned away. So. Working with ups. We brought together FEMA and their whole network of voluntary organizations active in disasters and the points of light foundations volunteer center network to rethink.

How we engaged what are called non-credentialed people who aren’t within official volunteer agency that has an agreement with FEMA, right? These are sort of the random people who show up the non-credentialed volunteers, how to engage them effectively in times of disaster. And how to think about that, not just in the immediate response, but in the whole disaster cycle, , preparedness mitigation, recovery.

And that was a really challenging. Change effort, because it was getting people to think differently about who had what roles and how things got done in those moments and what was appropriate and what was possible. And the biggest lesson I learned from that was, , my initial solution to that challenge was let’s bring everybody together for like a three-quarter day meeting and we’ll just crank out a hole and we’ll walk out of there and with a plan, it’ll all be great.

Well, if I had not been open. To the possibility that that wasn’t going to work. We probably would have walked out of there with some things on a piece of paper, but nothing would have changed. Instead it became clear just in the planning process that there were a lot of emotions and status quo defenders and what effors, , kind of happening in that.

And we really needed to tell. Almost probably 18 months to two years to really establish trust and culture, cultivate and nurture those relationships to create some amazing processes and protocols and partnerships that are still in place today. , if we think about this hurricane, that’s just come through new Orleans and, , up across the Northeast, there are a lot of volunteer centers that are mobilizing people right now.

I am certain using the processes and protocols that we put in place in 2003. And so that’s something I’m really proud of and where I learned a lot of lessons about what it takes to really influence people and to change.

[00:29:23] Corinna Bellizzi: Well, yeah, I mean, you bring to mind a few things that I’m having in my direct circle back then in 2001, when nine 11 hit, I was only a couple of years out of college.

I’d graduated in December 98 with a degree in physical anthropos. Essentially focused on the scientific side of anthropology from archeology to forensic pathology to also evolution, right? And I worked really closely with Alison Galloway at that time, who was one of the lead forensic anthropologists, and guess what you call them in when they’re, , you don’t have the body to identify, you have to identify from bone material.

And so I had reached out to. To volunteer much like I’m sure many people were just going to New York to be a part of that. And I was very lucky and that she had a protective perspective when it came to me volunteering my time. She said, Corinna, I want you to understand that. What you might see in this situation could be with you for the rest of your life.

And while right now you think that perhaps this is something that you want to do because you are engaged and you really want to help and support these people. I think it’s important that we put people in the trenches. Who have done this before, either. From like war time, like they had people volunteer who had been in Sarajevo or who had been on the ground and working with, , this kind of material before, because in my case it was mostly lab based.

Right. , being real-world would be a completely different shift. And so she and other leaders in that field were very protective of their student body. Even those that were completely able to contribute and only selected those that they felt were already emotionally prepared to handle what they would encounter.

And so I was lucky in that way, but I also get that sentiment of almost just wanting to hop in your car and drive to New York from calc.

[00:31:19] Nancy Murphy: Yes. Yes, definitely. And imagine, , doing that and then being turned away. So commitment that you had. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:31:28] Corinna Bellizzi: Well, I wouldn’t have gone without knowing that I would be part of that team.

Honestly that was one of the, it was a seminal moment for me, I think for many people to where it just suddenly realized how. How small the world is by comparison to sometimes how big you think it can be because so many people were connected to that moment. Like there was an individual from my high school who was on the plane that went down what was it?

Flight 93 or something and pencil. And , a good was connected to people who were called in sick in the building that day. Like they just didn’t feel right and didn’t go for some reason, ? So anyway, such, such memories as we reflect every year on September 11th, I come back to the.

Yeah. Well, thank you for your work in that arena. I think it’s critically important that we be able to mobilize and engage the skills of people when they want to put their best effort forward. Absolutely.

So given the conversation today, I grant that there are maybe many in the audience who want to be better agents of change from within their own companies, whether or not they be in a position of power. So I wonder if you have any tools that you could provide to that audience and also how they might connect with you if they wanted to engage you further on this time.

[00:32:43] Nancy Murphy: Yes. So folks are in luck because I have a weekly email that goes out called in genius, and they’re actionable gems for the influential intrepreneur. Nobody has time to read, , 20 pages of newsletters and things as much as we might want to. So I boil down really actionable gems that people can.

That day I hope or the, for the problem of the hour. And so they can sign up on our website at CSR communications forward slash weekly, and you’ll get those delivered straight to your inbox. Something you can act on to become more influential in. Intrepreneurial role every week and definitely connect with me through the website.

There’s an opportunity to sign up for a 30 minute complimentary site survey, where together we’ll map the richest areas to go digging for those artifacts that might be getting in the way of the change you want. And I’d love for folks to connect with me on LinkedIn, Nancy Murphy. I’m very active there, and that would be a great way for us to get to know each other.


[00:33:51] Corinna Bellizzi: happily include all those things in show notes. And I think I’m going to sign up for that newsletter myself, because , there are numerous ways even as a contractor that you can engage with and support change. And Hey, one of my whole mantras of this podcast is we’re creating a better world.

And what is that? But change, right?

[00:34:08] Nancy Murphy: Yes, absolutely.

[00:34:10] Corinna Bellizzi: So is there a specific charity that you would like to see get more attention?

[00:34:15] Nancy Murphy: Oh, well, thank you for asking. I am on the board of an organization called Atlas. And Atlas Corp brings leaders from around the world to serve and non-profits and actually work in companies here in the us to help them have a more global mindset and understand perspectives from others around the world.

So if folks are interested in hosting. Uh, an Atlas Corp fellow, or just in learning more about all the ways that you can get involved as a social sponsor or a donor or a reviewer of fellows applications, they can visit Atlas Corp org.

[00:34:57] Corinna Bellizzi: Oh, that’s great. We’ll also include that in show notes. So I have one last question for you, and that is simply if there is a question that I haven’t asked that you wish I had, what would it be?

And if you don’t have one top of mind, what closing thought would you like to leave our audience with?

[00:35:14] Nancy Murphy: Well, so I guess I would have loved if you would have asked me, what’s one thing that anyone could do today to immediately start being more influential.

[00:35:26] Corinna Bellizzi: I love one thing.

[00:35:29] Nancy Murphy: So I would answer that. Flip the switch of the way you currently approach your conversations from here’s what I need from you, or here’s what I need you to do so that I can get what I want.

And instead start with, how do I help you get what you need and in doing so I will get whatever.

[00:35:51] Corinna Bellizzi: Wow. Okay. So that really is just engaging them to be inspired. Right? I

[00:35:57] Nancy Murphy: mean, understanding what it is that motivates them, right? What is, what are their anxieties, fears, dreams, desires, motivations. And if you can frame your request or how the change that your. Proposing or implementing, we’ll actually speak directly to one of those things.

Then you will, you can frame it in a way that getting, going along with the change, , adopting whatever the practice, the behavior, the mindset is that you’re looking for will actually help them get what they want. Okay.

[00:36:31] Corinna Bellizzi: So now let’s say I’m a resistor of that change, and you’re asking me that question.

How do you do that? Yeah,

so I wouldn’t typically come up and be like, Hey Corrina, tell me what, what’s your fear? What’s your motivation. Right. It’s sort of going back to that, listening. We have two ears and one mouth. So, , listening for, what is it that you’re venting about? What is it that you’re, that you seem to be most stressed?

So I always share this example of one organization. I worked with this woman they were, it’s an end, a nonprofit organization, mostly government funded. And this woman was charged with starting a private fundraising effort and she was running around to her colleagues across the organization going. So I need you to give me things that I can write proposals for to foundations, like give me a program, give me an idea, give me something I can put in a proposal.

And people were like, You’re raising $25,000. I’ve got a $25 million proposal. I’ve got to get done to USA ID. Right? I don’t have time for you. So instead I said, why don’t you go to them and say, Corinna, if you had $25,000 of totally flexible money to do anything you needed with for that girl’s education program in Guatemala, what would you do with.

Or if you, if you could have anything that would make this program that you’re implementing more effective or get impact sooner, like what would it, what do you wish you had? And when she asked the question that way people were thinking, oh, here’s something I need, Nancy is going to help me get it. Right.

So then like the whole conversation flipped people were chasing her down in the hallways to share ideas with her. So it was just that mindset flip.

Right. And asking the question differently, thinking more from, , what your output, what you want to get from them, as opposed to I don’t know what you’re hoping to drive them towards, if that

[00:38:28] Nancy Murphy: makes sense.

Yeah. And like really putting them at the center, you know? Gosh, if you what’s the one problem you’re trying to solve in that program, like, what’s the frustrating thing that if you just had X, it would solve it. ? So it’s all about, it’s getting them to think about, oh, Let me tell you what my problems are, as opposed to you’re one more person standing in my door, needing something for me, and I don’t have time for you.

Cause I don’t understand what the benefit is. I’m just giving you something so you can go do your job. That’s not helpful to me.


[00:38:59] Corinna Bellizzi: Well, very good. And it’s a more likely in that situation that you’re going to be better. Understood anyways, so actually listen, right? Yeah. Well, thank you for that. It’s been such a pleasure to connect with you today, Nancy.

I really appreciate your time and your efforts. And I think these are really important pocket topics to be talking about with, , heck we all work for somebody, right?

[00:39:21] Nancy Murphy: Yep, absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. This is a fun conversation.

[00:39:26] Corinna Bellizzi: No. I’d like to invite all of our listeners to act. So that means you, it doesn’t have to be huge.

It could be as simple as sharing this podcast with a friend and your community, maybe one of your colleagues that you think could benefit from it. You could even just choose one of those charities to donate your time. So that you could feel better about your day to day. And I really like to remind everyone to just go ahead and take a peek at

If you haven’t been to the site yet you can explore, you can see all the other podcasts that we’ve posted and even sign up for our newsletter. One of the things that you will see there is links to YouTube and full transcripts, as well as some ideas of things that you could do to give back in your community.

We also feature a few companies that we encourage you to support now, listeners, thank you. Now it always for being a part of this pod and this community, because together we really can do so much more. We can care more and we can be better. Thank you.

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