When talking about health and chronic diseases, people don’t really talk about financial freedom and what it can do for you. People are always trying to find solutions to their problems without really going in on the root cause. Just like a chronic disease, it can be cured and financial independence is a good way to start. Learn how to invest in what really matters with family physician, Dr. Vimal Thomas George. Dr. George practices medicine at the Austin Diagnostic Clinic in Austin, Texas. He is also the author of Health in Flames. Join your host Corinna Bellizzi as she talks to Dr. Vimal George about the connection between your financial freedom and your health. Listen in and start living a happier and healthier life today!
About Vimal Thomas George, MD, MSc
Vimal Thomas George, MD, MSc is a family physician that practices medicine at the Austin Diagnostic Clinic in Austin, Texas. He graduated from the McGovern Medical School at the University of Texas Health Science Center. With a medical degree, a master’s degree in healthcare quality and safety management, and experience as the executive quality director of his clinic, he has a unique and broad understanding of population health. He also recently published a new book, Health in Flames: A Doctor’s Prescription for Living BEYOND Diet and Exercise.
Connect with Dr. George:
Guest LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/vimal-george-71b1061b/
Guest Website: www.healthinflames.com/
1:03 – Introduction
3:00 – Why Write A Book?
7:09 – Mindless Consumerism
12:16 – Achieving Happiness With Financial Independence
17:35 – Working Class Opportunities
20:26 – Keeping Up With The Joneses Phenomenon
26:26 – Index Funds
29:11 – Fear Of Investing
31:22 – Spending More Mindset And Life Happiness
36:28 – Financial Independent Vs Working For Money
39:50 – Other Investment Plans
40:42 – The Science Of Happiness
42:00 – Conclusion
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The Financial Solution To Your Health Problems: How Financial Independence Affects Your Health With Dr. Vimal Thomas George (MD, MSc)
Get To Know The MD And Author Of A New Book, Health In Flames
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We’re going to talk about the connection between your financial freedom and your health as I’m joined by a medical doctor, Vimal Thomas George. Dr. George practices medicine at the Austin Diagnostic Clinic in Austin, Texas, where he lives with his wife and two children. He has a Medical and a Master’s Degree and experience as the Executive Quality Director of his clinic. He has a unique and broad understanding of population health, given his experience. He published a new book, Health In Flames: A Doctor’s Prescription for Living BEYOND Diet and Exercise. We will know from him how there’s a better way to live a happier, healthier, wealthier and more engaged in a simply better life. I’ll let him tell you all about that.
Dr. Vimal George, welcome to the show.
Thank you, Corinna. It’s a pleasure being here with you.
I’m thrilled to have you. I’ve spent a bit of time with your book thus far. I believe I’ve made it to Chapter 11. The title of that chapter is An Alternative Universe Revisited Re-Imagining Life for Society. I had been working on getting through it before we had this interview, but sometimes you run a little behind schedule. It’s pretty incredible. As we get started, we talked about this work. Having spent a fair amount of time with your book, I’m curious what led you, a medical doctor with a thriving practice and a fair amount of administrative responsibility, to write a book about achieving better health through financial freedom.
You nailed it. It’s exactly that. I’m a medical doctor and have some administrative responsibilities. As the quality director at our clinic, I saw from my vantage point what a lot of folks in the medical field are increasingly seeing, which is that chronic disease in America, in particular, but even elsewhere is increasing in much of the developed world overtime.
It’s not a chronic disease, but along with that comes higher healthcare costs year over year. We’re spending $3.8 trillion per year on our medical expenses as a country. Yet, the rates of obesity, chronic disease are only increasing year after year. What that suggests is that we do not contain the problem. Exactly, for that reason, I’ve wanted to approach this from a different perspective and address what might be keeping people from following through on those fundamental pillars of healthy living that prevent chronic disease.
What we know is that 80% to 90% of these chronic diseases are preventable and largely through a healthy diet, exercise, good sleep and managing stress. Yet we’re finding that instead of preventing these chronic diseases, we’re only managing them with increasingly sophisticated medications and technological solutions that are not addressing the root cause.
In your opinion, what is the root cause?
The root cause, which I talk about in the book at some level, is very obvious. At a superficial level, we all know that, contrary to our forefathers who lived during the pre-industrial times was not nearly as active and consumed a lot of processed foods, which wasn’t necessarily the case in certainly pre-industrial times. Over time, this has become an increasingly difficult thing for people to follow through on.
I come to the conclusion of the book that this has to do with the intersection of two things. One is that the fact that by human nature, we tend to mistake pleasure for happiness. The second is that in a capitalist system, this combination of our human nature with our economic system and capitalism leads to what I call mindless consumerism.
You’re preaching to the choir. Parents, in general, think that this is the consumerist time of year. The average household spends more than $400 on a single child’s gifts. It’s a little bit insane. The expectation has even become that there’s a pile of toys underneath the tree at Christmas. In addition to that, perhaps a new wardrobe.
There’s a statistic in the book that we have about 3% of the world’s children in the US, yet we have about 40% of the toys. It speaks to the fact that we are vastly over-consuming in a way that’s not healthy. The reason for the term mindless consumption is that a certain level of consumption is good for us. It’s healthy and improves our happiness and health. Whereas beyond a certain level, it can adversely affect our health and decrease happiness.
What you’re speaking about is something that we hear a lot about from minimalists. There are a fair amount of minimalism podcasts out there, including Sustainable Minimalism by Stephanie Seferian. I interviewed her shortly after I started this show, and republished that episode in early December 2021 because I wanted people to think about minimalism as we’re headed into the holidays.
The reality is that happiness seems to be adversely related to the amount of stuff that people pack into their homes and that the clutter and everything else that comes with overconsumption can cause a fair amount of stress. You mentioned a statistic in the book about the number of homes of people that have storage facilities in addition to their spaces and the fact that our homes have doubled in size.
Not only since the 1970s have our homes doubled in size, but we also are running out of storage lockers with increasing capacity because people have more stuff than they have space for. They’re reticent to let go of it. They pay for storage and the storage fees pile up. My mother paid for one for years and years after we left Oregon. We ended up paying a friend to go and review it all, make a garage sale and keep the proceeds because it was going to be savings for us. We’d been spending $100 or so every month for years on a space to store stuff that we never missed.
People are only managing chronic diseases with medication and technological solutions without really addressing the root cause.
It’s mind-boggling, the degree of overconsumption that is not translating to improvements in happiness. There’s something I didn’t mention in the book. There’s a famous economist that I’m sure some of your readers will know, John Maynard Keynes, who spoke in the 1930s. He predicted that in our time, which is about 100 years from when he spoke this, largely people would be financially independent, which means that they would have to work. He predicted that most people would work about 10 to 15 hours per week. That’s not the case. What happened?
On the one hand, we have more women working than ever before. You would think that we should have gotten to the point of becoming financially independent of our employers or working fewer hours much sooner, but that’s not the case. What’s happened is that we increased the size of our houses. We had nearly almost three times the size of houses from the 1930s when John Maynard Keynes made this prediction. We’re vastly over-consuming. As a result, we’re tied to a modern way of employment, which is increasingly unhealthy. I’m happy to unpack that a little bit when you want to go into that.
Ultimately, you make an argument in the book. If we work to achieve our financial independence sooner and are saving more, we can get to this space where we can choose to work as opposed to being forced to pay the bills, have more free time and have a higher quality of life. I feel like I’m still stuck in the rat race because as I put it to people around me, it’s like, “If I have free time, I’ll fill it with something because I liked work.” In a way, I turned my show into work because I do love it. I’m putting a message out into the world that people need to know, like this one. A different way of approaching your living can give you more happiness and fulfillment. Let’s talk about it.
There’s a lot to unpack here. First of all, this recognition that beyond a certain level, the things that we buy have very little impact on happiness and can adversely affect happiness in ways that we don’t realize. There’s a lot of science backing up this that I talk about in the book. I am happy to go into it or your readers can hopefully read the book and find out for themselves.
Once you get to that point, most of that spending is not doing us any good. There’s a better way to use that money, which is to invest that. Over time, hopefully, they get to the point of becoming financially independent of their employer. What this opens up is a lot. If you buy into this notion that the best things in life, once you’ve met your basic needs, are largely free of cost. That means that you can invest far more than the typical financial advisor typically recommends to put away.
Most financial advisors tell you to put away 10%, maybe 20%, if you’re being aggressive. This opens up the possibility of putting way, at least 30%, perhaps 70% of your income into investing. What that does is that over time and not towards the end of your life, as most financial advisors where you put away 10%, 20%, you’ll be retiring toward the end of your life. This enables you to become financially independent at a much younger age.
Corinna, I love what you are doing because financial independence does not mean you sit back, retire and do nothing. I hope that people find the things that they’re passionate about. When they’re passionate about something, they work differently with meaning and purpose at a different level. There’s a lot of research behind that, which I point to in the book.
What I’d like to suggest is that you get away or at least you have the leverage to be able to decide on your terms of employment. As a result, you get away from me a hazardous way of living, which is what modern employment looks like. The typical person in this economy is sitting in a job from 8:00 to 5:00, largely tied to a computer, then sitting through traffic to and from work.
That leaves, one, you have almost no exercise there. It’s completely sedentary. Two, oftentimes, folks are rushed and don’t have time for an adequate breakfast. It’s usually breakfast on the go, maybe a breakfast taco or a coffee. Lunch is often similarly rushed. To have time for an adequate nourishing meal that you prepare for dinner for you and your family doesn’t happen. People don’t have the energy by the end of that time to be able to do all that. I’d like to suggest a better way of living by recognizing that one consumerism is part of that problem. It’s the driving force behind this status quo situation.
If I’m to summarize what I’ve read so far in the book, you can pay off your college debt earlier through measures of frugality and for being mindful of the things that you consume along the way. You can pay off your credit cards more succinctly by not buying the bigger, better, faster, more car every time that you’ve had one for a couple of years, and upgrading your home 2 or 3 times by the time you’re 40. You can essentially get to a space where you are more financially independent and your investments can start even to pay you a stipend if you’re smart about your resources.
The things that you buy have very little impact on happiness. In fact, it can adversely affect happiness in ways that you don’t realize.
This can also feel out of touch to people who might be a little bit more working-class or have graduated from college with significant debt and not necessarily met the types of opportunities that would enable them to pay it off quickly. I wondered if you could comment on that. Ultimately, I love the concepts. I’m a frugal person at heart, but I also would like to better understand how we can guide people, especially if they’re going to school for something at the commencement of their college that they hear as a burgeoning field get in and be wide open. They graduate college four years later and the dynamics have shifted. There’s COVID.
Especially if you’re swamped in debt or something of that nature, it sets you back to some extent, but I did point to the story in the book modeled after a working-class couple. There’s a couple relatively young that started in their twenties. They were able to get to the point of becoming financially independent in their 30s, which is amazing considering they had five kids too.
I’d like to suggest that this is much more plausible than a lot of folks think. We live in a society where everybody over-consumes. As a result, what we think of as normal is probably inflated in terms of the level of normal. That’s not to say that some folks can’t get to that level and through no fault of their own.
The medical issue, debt, some people have very little income for whatever reason. Some folks will not get to that point of becoming financially independent. That’s okay. Even if you don’t get to that point, there’s a lot of benefit to following in a mindful consumer-oriented lifestyle that helps you sleep better at night, if nothing else. Maybe you have a little bit of cushion if maybe you don’t have to work that second job. There is some degree of liberation even then by being a mindful consumer.
A lot of people can’t even afford a $400 emergent expense without dipping into credit cards and things along those lines. That’s a reality for many people. We are also living in a phase where as you point out in the book, it’s like this Keeping Up with the Joneses. This constant comparison creates the illusion of not having enough or not doing well enough because you’re comparing to what someone else has, as opposed to thinking about what you have and what you can be thankful for. I wondered if you had some perspective to offer on that in particular. I would also like to get into the types of investments that are perhaps friendly for someone who’s getting started or thinking about investing, less risky and provide a better upside.
I’ll take that first part first. This Keeping Up with the Joneses phenomenon is a real deal and thing that happens that we don’t notice happening. Later in the book, I tell the story of when I was growing up in the villages of India, where I come from. In the entire village, no one had any utensils. We come to think of utensils as being essential. It’s past Chapter 11, so I don’t think you’ve gotten to it yet.
You referenced earlier in the book, Chapter 11 at least, the fact that we think about these things as essential, but in the Depression era, it wasn’t that way. They weren’t considered essential items. You might not have them.
Adam Smith had the foresight to recognize that increase over time, people would identify things as essential, which a decade before was considered a luxury. I point to the utensil because it’s such a basic thing. If we can think about the use of utensils, we almost have to rethink everything. The point is that Keeping Up with the Joneses is not what a lot of folks think is how it works. It’s not necessarily neighbors competing against neighbors.
Most folks, when their neighbor gets a nice car, they’re relatively happy for them. They’re not necessarily actively competing against them. Your social circumstances, social cues, the people that you live around almost unknowingly get to a set of level of consumer-oriented purchases that you think are essential and might not be able to live without when in fact, you can rethink a lot of that.
All of this is not to say that I think everybody should be living like a monkey. I don’t think that’s about lifestyle for a lot of folks. It’s probably better than the situation they find themselves in. I’d like to suggest that you get to the point of becoming financially independent, which opens up many possibilities and opportunities like what Corinna is doing, the things that you want to be able to spend more of your time doing. It opens up a lot of things that you can’t do now.
Maybe I’m asking for personal financial advice. You’re not a financial analyst per se, but I’m looking at what I might even choose to invest a little bit of money in. I intended to put away the maximum contribution to my 401(k) over the years. This is something you mentioned in your book and the things that employers can do to help their employees along with making it a standard process.
Live well within your means and then invest the rest.
All paychecks are automatically deducted at 3% for a 401(k) that the company matches and they’d have to choose to opt-out as opposed to giving them the option to opt-in. I love that. That introduces financial responsibility a little sooner. I’ve participated in all of those programs as long as they were available. I’m self-employed, so I’m slightly more limited to what I can put away each year, at least how I put it away.
Getting an IRA for $6,000, that’s tax-free and looking at how else I might invest. I honestly haven’t taken the time to educate myself and investigate what I might want to do. I’ve heard about mutual funds. I’ve been thinking about something that’s more environmentally based that’s in line with the constructs of my show, like caring about social impact and sustainability.
There are mutual funds specifically out there along those lines, which seem to show a fairly consistent return. There is a risk. It’s not like putting your money in a bank account per se, but I love your input or thoughts about where somebody should start if they’re figuring out that they have a few hundred dollars a month to set aside how they should invest in securing that future.
What I’d like to suggest is that if you’ve already adopted this mentality, once you’ve met your basic needs and the best things in life are largely free of cost, that’s almost 70% of it there. Once you’ve adopted that mentality, you’re going to be able to put away much more into an investment than what your typical financial advisor would recommend.
The key to growing your money over time is simple. It comes down to living well within your means and then investing the rest. You could read hundreds of financial books and they’ll tell you the same thing. As to how to do that, the easiest thing that most people would do well is index funds, which are mutual funds that track the index. For example, the S&P index tracks the top 500 companies or the S&P 500 index. It automatically adjusts to capture the top 500 companies and invest in those companies over time. That’s probably the easiest way. It gives you a reliable return on your investment over time. You beat out 90%s to 95% of the professional money managers by investing in index ones. For the vast majority of people, that would make the most sense.
This is something that we should be talking more about. I’m happy that they have better financial resources and standard curriculums within high schools than they did when I was going to high school, for example. If you think about the fact that there’s a time value to money, this is something we spent a bit of time learning about when I was getting my MBA at Santa Clara.
The fact is that you have inflation happening at a rate that’s higher than a standard bank account, savings account, the yield would be. Even if you’re squirreling money away, you’re putting it in an account and afraid to spend it. It’s losing value and time. It’s worthless next year than it was the year prior. A wise choice would be to take at least a portion of whatever savings you have and put it into some mutual fund or an index fund.
It has the potential to gain that 10% year over year that otherwise it wouldn’t and that 10% can be reinvested and reinvested. That’s what gets you to the space where you’re able to achieve that financial freedom. I have not followed this advice. I’m terrible at it. I have my 401(k), house and the condo that we still have. The reality is that those things are all cushions and can become money, even if they’re not money. We have a certain level of freedom, but I’ve been afraid to make those investments. If you were to advise somebody like me who might have a little bit of fear about investing, what might you say?
Once you’ve fully funded your 401(k) or your IRA, after that point, you should probably go to open an account at a discount brokerage firm put away as much as you can into mutual funds and largely index funds. There is some fine-tuning to do after that. You can get various types of index funds. You want some large caps, mid-caps and international, so different sorts of exposures on that, in that way, but I don’t want to make things too complicated. Go get a Vanguard 500 index fund, put some money in and watch that grow over time. That’s simple. That right there is probably 90% of it. The rest is fine-tuning. You can’t go wrong if you started with that.
I have a few fairly wealthy friends who went a little crazy over the Bitcoin explosion and made a fair amount of money in that space as well. Some of them are diversified because they are smart about their resources. I wondered what your thoughts were about that particular arm of the investment wheel.
Potentially, that’s risky. I don’t think necessarily the best investment for most folks. You can lose a lot of money. At the same time, a lot of folks have made a lot of money in these last few years on Bitcoins, but that can change in a heartbeat. It’s not likely to happen within the next months. Over the long-term, the stock market grows consistently year over year at a pretty good clip.
Enabling people to become increasingly sedentary and productive over time is not going to translate to better health.
I wonder if you had anything you wanted to share that you felt you hadn’t gotten to yet.
If you think about the typical recommendation from our politicians, the prevailing wisdom is that we should be spending more so that we can grow GDP and increase productivity. Why are we doing that? Ultimately, it’s about human wellbeing and our happiness. If we are adversely affecting our health by doing this, maybe we need to take a different approach and do the exact opposite of what our politicians are suggesting.
Once again, the prevailing wisdom is that by spending more, we’re eventually going to get to the point of innovating. These innovations will lead to technological breakthroughs that will be able to cure many of the chronic diseases that we can’t even contain in this world. We’ll have a cure for diabetes, cancer, Alzheimer’s and things that we can’t even imagine.
What’s wrong with that line of reasoning? What I’d like to suggest is that enabling people to become increasingly sedentary and continue to be even more productive over time is not going to translate to better health. We have to differentiate between chronic disease management on the one hand and improving our health, wellbeing and ultimately, our happiness. On the other hand, what you can see if you were to graph GDP over time against happiness in the US.
I pointed this graph in the book, you can look it up, but our levels of happiness as a society have been declining since the 1970s or so. The driving force behind that is the rise of chronic disease. We’re doing ourselves a disservice in a way. We’re shooting ourselves in the foot in the name of increasing productivity.
You mentioned in the book too the action of people, even getting outside and experiencing a bike ride, going for a walk or eating whole foods as opposed to processed foods that they tend to report. They self-report as being happier and living happier lives. As we increase our sedentary natures and aren’t connecting in a face-to-face way, spending time outdoors and eating the right foods, all of those things impact our happiness and ability to reach happiness.
All those things that you named, getting outside, having access to wholesome food, exercising, moving around, don’t require any technological breakthroughs. They’re available to us. We need to be free enough to be able to move from our desks and have enough time for our day so that we can prepare an adequate nourishing meal. I’d like to suggest that there’s a much better way of living for most folks if we can wrap our heads around this concept that maybe this increased productivity is chasing after the latest and greatest that’s not so good for us.
I’m reminded of an interview I conducted with Mo Gawdat, who wrote Solve For Happy and Scary Smart. He talked about our responsibility as it relates to artificial intelligence and the future it can help us create. One of the things that came through in that discussion was this need to slow down and that seemed to be a critical component of solving for happiness. I’m personally seeing a movement of slow living and even a retail model branded as the slow retail model, which is all about essentially trying to distill down into core essentials.
Focus on the important things, slow down, reduce the amount of work you try to do to stay more focused on the idea space and remain creative so that you can continue to produce meaningful work at a higher level. Those things all come into play, but I wondered if you had any thoughts to add to that.
When you’re trying to work for money, as most of us are, then you are working for a different reason than if you’re financially independent. The financially independent person works because they’re passionate about the product or service they are producing. Money is a side effect. Unfortunately for most of us, we work for money and the product or service is a side effect. This has huge implications in terms of how we go about selling things and the products that we produce. It reminds me of what Upton Sinclair once said and hopefully, I can get this right, “It’s difficult to get a man to understand something if his salary depends on him not understanding it.”
We’re much more likely to compromise our integrity if we are tied to this form of living where we’re dependent on our paycheck for our daily expenses and yet, we don’t have to be this way. There’s a much better way out there that I hope folks are reading out there will be persuaded about. This has huge implications in terms of the food industry. Think about the way that we work in the food industry because they make things so addictive. It’s about maximizing profit. When you’re passionate about the product or services, as opposed to about profits, you’re not necessarily to addict folks. You’re not trying to lure them into getting more and more. It changes the nature of how we work as a society.
This has been an interesting conversation. I am more and more convinced that I need to slow down a little further and spend more time on investments. As I criticized the habit of putting a bunch of money in a bank account and letting it sit there, that’s what we do. We’ve been looking at whether it will take a portion of that and invest in my husband’s employer, Joby Aviation, who went public. We’re looking at that. I will put some money aside in some basic index funds because it’s not very risky. It will help secure a future and possibly even pay for that education for my kids. That’s the one thing that is tough. Saving for their education is the thing that I’ve got my sights on at this point.
There are some excellent 529 plans, which are college savings plans out there that everybody hopefully should be looking into to get you to that level of security you need.
It’s difficult to get a man to understand something if his salary depends on him not understanding it.
My mother-in-law put it this way though, save for yourself and retirement first and the children because if you can’t cover your expenses later in life, they’re expected to cover yours. If you kick the can down the road to them, is that fair too? It was an interesting point. As I get to this last bit of our interview, I like to ask my guests if there was a question that I haven’t asked that you wish I had? If not, let’s sum up and give our readers that one thing that they should walk into their days thinking about.
I want to refer you to the book to read a little bit about the science of happiness. We didn’t talk a whole lot about that, but there are relatively few things that impact happiness. That’s surprisingly a few things that are within our control. Those things, once you’ve met your basic needs, are largely free of cost. Those things tend to be things that engage your body or mind or soul in some way. Exercise, for example, engages your body or reading a book. Those are the things that engage the mind and make you think about things, reading, things like that.
Those things, which are largely free of cost, are available to us, spending time with family and friends. I hope that when we start to recognize the huge opportunities that we’re potentially missing out on in the name of increasing productivity, that we, as a society, start to rethink things to live in a healthier and better way, hopefully.
Thank you so much, Dr. George, for taking this time with us.
The book is called Health In Flames: A Doctor’s Prescription for Living BEYOND Diet And Exercise if anybody is interested. You can find out more information on the website, HealthInFlames.com. I hope you read the book. I’m convinced that it will benefit you. For those of you who are interested in bringing that benefit to the next level to a societal level, there’s a place on the website where you can contact me and indicate your interest. I hope to work with some of you to build a better society. I look forward to that.
I’ve been enjoying the book in audiobook format. At the end of each section, you offer a question and answer. You’re inviting people to reflect on the information that they’ve learned. That’s a good format for working to engrain the learnings and move forward into change. Thanks for doing that. It’s an incredible book. I also like reading audiobooks as I’m out there enjoying the outdoors in an audio file. I’ll put a reminder there for all of you, you can get it in audio format as well.
Thank you so much, Corinna.
Thank you, Dr. George.
Readers, if you have learned anything, I would like to sum it up quickly for you. The reality is that each of us is responsible for the things that we consume and dispose of. If we’re more mindful of the things we consume, we have less to dispose of. That can be part of the solution that will work to reverse global warming and ultimately make a more habitable and happy future for all of us. I would invite all of you to go ahead and pick up a copy of his book. It’s a great read. It’s awesome as an audiobook too. One of the things I sometimes do to save time is speeding it up to one and a half times.
That’s part of how I got to almost the end of Chapter 11, having only met Dr. George while doing this show, working and raising two boys. There are ways to fit these things in. It’s an exceptional way to take care of it. You understand that by living a little bit more frugally, you can be happier, healthier, live with greater purpose, have a little bit more security and understand that you’ve got more money building in the background as you continue on your day.
This is one of the many ways that we will work to rebuild. This particular topic and episode is something that everyone would benefit from. I have a special ask for you. When you’re with your friends and family, tell them about Dr. George’s work. Subscribe them to this show. You could even load the episode up on their phone and get them to listen to it. This isn’t a Mount Everest ask. It’s a practical one.
Too often, we intend to do something, get something done and forget. It fades into the background of the should as we go on with our busy lives. That would be a fantastic way for you to pay it forward. You are what makes all of this work with this show worth it every single day. I’d love to hear from you. If you enjoyed this particular episode, read Dr. Vimal George’s work, questions for him, I’d be happy to put you in touch as well.
Reach out. You can even leave me a voicemail on CareMoreBeBetter.com or send me an email to Hello@CareMoreBeBetter.com. Thank you, readers, now and always, for being a part of this show and community because together we can do so much more. We can care more and be better. We can even regenerate the Earth. Thank you.