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 Can solutions to poverty be regenerative? Because International says yes. Joining Corinna Bellizzi are its founder Kenton Lee and CEO Andrew Kroes. They share their regenerative approach to humanitarian aid by developing The Shoe That Grows, an adjustable shoe designed to expand as children grow and potentially last for years. Kenton and Andrew discuss how this big, audacious goal of distributing hundreds of thousands of pairs of shoes across more than 100 countries came to be, continuously improved by sector collaboration and feedback loops. They also talk about their motivation to give more and help more, all without losing track of their true purpose of making a greater impact in other people’s lives.

About Kenton Lee

Kenton Lee is the founder of Because International and creator of The Shoe That Grows – an adjustable shoe designed to expand as children grow, helping families in poverty access durable footwear that lasts for years. Inspired by his time working at an orphanage in Kenya, Kenton launched the organization to develop practical, product-based solutions to global poverty. Since its founding, Because International has distributed hundreds of thousands of pairs of shoes across more than 100 countries while supporting broader innovation-driven humanitarian efforts.

About Andrew Kroes

Andrew Kroes, CEO of Because International, leads a nonprofit focused on designing scalable, product-based solutions to poverty. He helped evolve and scale The Shoe That Grows and is listed as the inventor on its latest patented version – now worn by more than 500,000 children across 100+ countries. With a background in investments and fintech, Andrew applies investor discipline and product design to philanthropy – prioritizing measurable outcomes, capital efficiency, and long-term durability. His work sits at the intersection of: product innovation and humanitarian impact, capital allocation and poverty solutions, market discipline and nonprofit execution, rather than asking “How do we give more?” Andrew explores a different question: “How do we build solutions that last?”

Guest LinkedIn:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewkroes

https://www.linkedin.com/in/kentonarthurlee

Guest Website: https://www.becauseinternational.org/

Guest Social:

https://www.instagram.com/becauseinternational

https://www.facebook.com/becauseinternational

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3SY5zp886_n9M4njkN64GA

 https://www.pinterest.com/becauseinternational/

Show Notes:

• 01:41 – How Because International Came To Be
• 13:00 – The Shoe That Grows Works
• 27:43 – The Future Of Because International
• 35:09 – Because International’s Business Model For Their Big Audacious Goal
• 44:32 – Unlocking Continuous Improvement Through Feedback Loops
• 51:39 – Responding To The Call To Make A Real Difference

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The Shoe That Grows: 500,000 Kids, 100 Countries, One Crazy Idea | Kenton Lee and Andrew Kroes

Welcome, regenerators. Each week, we explore the intersection of sustainability, justice, and regenerative thinking to build a better future for people and for the planet. We often talk about sustainability and regenerative systems, including ecosystems, supply chains, and business models, but what we often forget to talk about are solutions to poverty. Can those be regenerative, too?

I’ve been thinking about this a lot ever since I ran into my old friend Doug, living on the streets of Santa Cruz. He’s been in that unsheltered situation most of his adult life. One of the first things that struck me, standing there talking to him, was how much had been offered to him over the years, and how little of it had worked. Clothing wears out, programs end, aid passes through, but a lot of it doesn’t stick.

Our guests started with a different question. Not how do we give more, but how do we build something that can last? Kenton Lee is the Founder of Because International and the creator of The Shoe That Grows. It’s an adjustable shoe that’s designed to expand as a child grows. One pair of shoes can last years instead of mere months. Andrew Kroes is Because International’s CEO and Kenton’s longtime friend who brought an investor’s discipline and a FinTech background into their humanitarian work. Their shoe is worn by more than 500,000 children across 100 countries.

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Kenton, Andrew, thank you so much for doing this work, and welcome to the show.

Thanks for having us.

How Because International Came To Be

I want to get started by talking about your work, Kenton, because you were working first at an orphanage in Kenya when you saw a girl wearing shoes that were far too small for her feet. Can you tell that story? What happened inside you at that moment?

This all began right after college for me back in 2007. I graduated, and I thought I was going to have a career working outside the US. I lived in Ecuador for 6 months, and then in Kenya for 6 months, and discovered that I missed home a little bit too much to live overseas. When I was in Kenya, I had this life-changing experience, especially this life-changing moment.

I got to volunteer and live at a small orphanage right outside of Nairobi. There were about 140 kids. It was my 2nd or 3rd week there when we were all walking together from the orphanage, going to church. We were all walking together down this dusty road in the village. As we were walking, there was a little girl next to me. I’ll never forget. She was wearing a beautiful white dress, and as I looked down at her next to me, I was shocked at how small her shoes were.

She was wearing shoes that were way too small for her feet. They were so small she had to cut open the front to let her toes stick out. I don’t know if I had never noticed these before, or if she hadn’t worn these before. Whatever it was, it was the first time I was seeing this, and it stuck with me. Long story short, that was the day that I had this idea for a growing pair of shoes. Even if a child only had one pair of shoes, that pair of shoes could grow right alongside their growing feet.

It was an idea I wrote down in my journal. When I got back home and I knew I wasn’t going to have a career overseas or a career outside the US. I began to think, “What could I do from home? What could my mission be to try to help from home?” I went back to my journal, and I went back to that idea. I am very glad that I jumped in with it because it has changed my life. It made a big difference for lots of kids around the world.

Half a million already in the present shoe, so I know you’ve impacted even more than that. Andrew, you’ve brought into this organization an investor’s lens. What is the core problem that you see in a solution like this when you’re trying to tackle something that is to help eradicate one of the struggles of poverty? How did you approach that? Where did you see the biggest need? How did you get to success?

Anyone in this space of trying to provide assistance, support, or aid, you realize that it is complex. You can think about the logistics, for example, of creating a shoe. That can adjust, expand, last, and solve a problem like this over an extended period of time. Functionally and logistically, you can solve all those issues. You can create an incredible product. The other half of it is the dynamics around human behavior, and psychology. These individuals need a level of outside support instead of simply being able to provide for themselves or solve this problem on their own.

Even the example you gave, your personal example, versus the kids that we work with overseas. Those dynamics are different as well. One of the core beliefs that we bring into this is that children, no matter where they’re located and no matter what situation they’re in, deserve to have their basic needs provided for them. Ideally, it’s going to be by their parents, their caregivers, or their community.

Also, where that still isn’t happening, what opportunity do we have? People that are on the other side of the world, but still have some things to give. Whether that’s the innovation mindset or investor mindset of being able to come in and apply our skills and abilities. Also, the platform that we’ve been given to develop a community of other people who are also passionate and excited about this work that can come in and fund that.

To summarize that, long story short, taking that mindset of kids deserve to have their immediate needs met, we want to do that in the moment. That’s where relief comes in. How can we come in and solve those immediate needs they have, but then also do it in a way that’s investing in them over the long-term?

What sort of physical impact but also psychological impact can we provide that is going to help these kids escape that long-term cycle of poverty? Something as simple as a pair of shoes keeps kids healthy. It restores dignity in some important ways. Also, something as simple as a pair of shoes helps keep a child in school and helps boost educational outcomes. That’s another core belief. Education is key to breaking that long-term cycle of poverty.

I was struck by something as I began reviewing your company as a whole, which was this recollection of another organization that also attacked the problem of shoes. That was TOMS Shoes. They had this buy one, give one model. Essentially, you could buy a pair of basic Keds-like shoes. I was looking back at my early ‘80s upbringing as a little kid, thinking they look like Keds.

They used to have one model of shoe. They would essentially give the same shoe to kids or people who were in need in countries around the world for every pair they sold, by largely getting their start in the natural marketplace. Which is the space in which I work and call my professional home. Why did you choose a different approach? Perhaps, what brought that to reality?

I can answer that a little bit. I don’t know if I’m speaking out of turn, but truthfully, we offered our shoes. We offered the idea. Not that it was completed, but when I came back home, I had the idea, and we jumped in. The first thing I did, besides telling Andrew about it, was to try to give it away. I didn’t know anything about shoes. I didn’t know what I was doing. I just thought it was a good idea. I talked to every major shoe company, TOMS included.

I didn’t want any money for it. I just wanted someone to help us, or they could take it over. What would have probably been the easiest path towards immediate impact, and even for sure, a large impact, would be for a commercial shoe company. Whether it’s a one-for-one model or a profit model, but for a commercial shoe company that has huge expertise and huge resources to be able to take an idea like this and make it happen. That’s how we started. It was by trying to connect, partner, and give it to one of the big shoe companies that knew what they were doing.

Everybody said no. They all said, “Not a great idea. It’s not going to work.” Andrew and I figured it out. We went out in the garage and tried to make it happen. That didn’t work too well either, but we finally found a little shoe design company that helped us make a design and then make a prototype. We started it from scratch. If any of those big shoe companies ever want to partner, connect with us, and help get more shoes that grow to kids. We would love to do that. We’re so open to that.

We stumbled into our business model in some ways. For me, I led with heart. I’m trying to make this thing happen. It took six years for this to go from the idea that I had to when we’ve had our first batch of 3,000 pairs. It was lots of nights and weekends. Someone else, and definitely a shoe company, could have done that a lot faster and a lot easier, but it was just me, Andrew, and our little team trying to make this thing happen.

I did a lot with heart. Once Andrew came on board full-time, he gave it that business expertise perspective. I’ll tell a quick story. When Andrew first came in, the first batch of shoes we made cost us about $17 a pair to make. I was getting them out to partners and people that I knew, working with kids for $10 a pair. That was the suggested donation. The cost to sponsor a pair of shoes was $10. Andrew had to come in and clean all this up. Andrew had to come in and create that business model based on some heart that I had.

It has been such a fun team for me and Andrew. I wanted to get shoes to kids, but then Andrew came in and helped us figure out a business model and a way to do this sustainably, and a way to cut costs while still having a durable shoe, a shoe that is great for kids. How can we cut the cost but still have it be an incredible shoe? Through all of those challenges, Andrew and the team did such a great job working on those. To be honest, we made it up as we went. Now that it has been 10 or 15 years down the road, Andrew’s an expert in shoes.

Our team is full of experts in what they do. I’ve learned so much about fundraising and how to connect with people. We are in such a strong position, but when we were first getting started, we wanted to get what we felt was a good pair of shoes, a small thing that makes a big difference. We wanted to get that to as many kids as we could. We let our passion guide us. We worked hard, but we’re fortunate to be in the strong spot we are because we didn’t plan any of this.

Kenton, any entrepreneurs tuning in to the consumer products and goods space would automatically know a 30% margin is not something you can build a business on. Operating alone and keeping the lights on would be very hard, even as a not-for-profit. With all the costs and logistics of getting a product from point A to point B and then point C, it’s a bear.

The Shoe That Grows Works

We’ve spent time talking about the creation of the shoe, the idea behind it, and ultimately, the need it services. For the people reading, if they’re not watching on YouTube or they’re not watching a little snippet of this video on social platforms, they might not have the ability to visualize it, so I was hoping you could describe it. You’ve got multiple versions. One’s pink, blue, and black. To me, they look a little bit like Tevas, but one that adjusts.

That’s a great way to describe it. I know Andrew has been so involved with the shoe over the years. For those who can’t see it, he’s holding the latest version in his hand. I love hearing him explain it, so let me see if Andrew can give a little verbal picture of how The Shoe That Grows Works.

We’ve probably been through a dozen iterations at this point. We are always trying to balance the cost with the functionality and the durability. The constants have always been the functionality and the durability. It grows five sizes and is designed to last for years. As kids adjust and expand the shoe, it doesn’t fall apart on them.

With the latest design, some people say there’s some Crocs inspiration here, especially given the holes, the charm, and some of these decorations, which make the shoe more fun than ever, but also, this latest design is the easiest to produce and scale. We finished this a couple of years ago. We went from being able to produce about 6,000 pairs per month at the factory in Kenya that makes the shoe to over 20,000 pairs per month. Also, it’s a simplified design. There are fewer materials that are being cut, stitched, and bonded together, so you have fewer failure points.

This latest version is a little bit more enclosed. We’ve got a name tag charm. We call these charms where kids can personalize the shoe. In terms of functionality, you’ve got this button system in the front that allows the front of the shoe to be adjusted out as well as come in. You have this buckle and strap system on the back strap, and you’ve got them on these sides. That gives you the side adjustment. There’s also this back strap, which can be adjusted but also flipped up and down depending on how the kid wants to wear the shoe.

It is pretty simple and very functional. A lot of kids think they’re a lot of fun. They love getting them. A lot of these kids haven’t received and owned a brand-new anything, so to have a pair of shoes that’s brand-new, that isn’t a hand-me-down, and that they can personalize with some of these ornaments. It is something they can adjust and expand, and it is made to last. It’s a pretty fun and special experience when these kids receive the shoes, that whole distribution process.

You mentioned something that I want to touch on. You mentioned sustainability earlier. The fact is, if you’re working with a shoe that can grow with an individual, it’s going to last more than 3 or 4 months. It’s going to last potentially years. The material that you’re working with looks to be a rubberized plastic that is probably quite durable.

To me, looking at it, it looks like a mashup between a traditional old-school Birkenstock with perhaps an element of KEEN or Teva thrown in there. I see the Crocs with some of the holes that you could add ornaments to, and that backstrap. It’s an interesting design. It’s closed-toed because that flap in the front offers a little bit of protection from the stubbed toe, but it’s more of a sandal than a running shoe.

The shoes have been distributed in over 100 countries, but especially in warmer climates and extensive rainy seasons. There’s a big advantage in having a shoe that doesn’t absorb water, that’s quick-drying, and that is open-toed. You get that ventilation, but it still protects. It still has that protection from thorns, glass, trash, puncture wounds, and things like that. Those are all the dynamics that come into the style. We spent a lot of years collecting feedback, surveying, focus groups with the kids, learning, and understanding from them.

It’s a rubber synthetic blend that the entire thing is made out of. With any product design, whenever you’ve got different goals and priorities, sometimes, those priorities can be competing. For example, if you’re going to make a shoe that is biodegradable, it’s probably not going to last for years. There’s a big advantage in having simple materials that are very durable. That aren’t going to be thrown into a landfill after a few months, but will last over a long period of time. Hopefully, even if and when the kid does outgrow the shoes, they could be used by another child.

It is an interesting component here that your audience might understand even more than a regular audience. There is some tension here. This is maybe the reason why a lot of shoe companies, or all the shoe companies, said no to us. Shoe companies want to make money. They make money when they sell more shoes. If a kid outgrows a pair of shoes, they get to sell them another pair of shoes.

For us, we did flip that on its head by trying to create a shoe that could last as long as possible. By doing that, we hamstring our own sales or support because we do want the kids to wear these shoes for as long as they can. We made them durable so that they can be used for as long as possible. That’s a different way to do it.

As you talk about sustainability, for us to have a sustainable product, that was a gigantic focus for us. We believe that this product is more impactful for the kids. The more sustainable it is, the longer it lasts. Yet, how can we have a sustainable business model in the midst of that? It’s not 2 plus 2 equals 4 in terms of having our sustainable product also relate exactly to a sustainable business model.

We’re fortunate. We chose to be a nonprofit so that we could cast this vision and have amazing donors and supporters come in and help us with that bottom line. Especially in our early years as we were getting started. We needed that support to bridge the gap a little bit. For so many companies out there, whether they are B Corps, regular commercial companies, nonprofits, or whatever they might be, there can be some real tension between having a sustainable mission and having a sustainable business.

We are right in the middle of that. We are still working on that every day. It’s not easy, but we want to encourage anybody out there who is an entrepreneur or has a vision for an amazing product to not quit on your product. Don’t quit on having a sustainable, amazing product that’s going to make a difference. You can figure out the business part. There are people who will help you do that.

We’ve been so fortunate with such great board members, supporters, and donors that helped us figure this out. We are a different kind of shoe company in some ways. We do a few more things, too. We’re different with our shoes because we want them to last as long as possible. We’ve had to figure it out of how we can make that work financially. It’s been such a fun ride, and it’s so fun to talk about. Thanks for letting me throw that in there.

What you’re talking about, the whole issue of planned obsolescence, is embedded in the production of so many products and is a point of frustration for people across the board. The fact that I have to buy a new dishwasher every five years is ridiculous. I shouldn’t have to do that, but they don’t make them last beyond that anymore.

There is a real honor in doing it the way that you’re doing it. It also does help explain why some of these other companies might have been less likely to bring on the challenge. At the same time, I want to communicate something else. There are not-for-profits built around bringing socks to people. That’s one example. The fact that this product does not require socks is that it’s like one less thing you have to worry about.

That’s a great point. I’m sure I’m talking too much here, but another thing to point out super fast. It’s all about the kids for us. It. This was an idea that I had. Those original sketches of our first pair look nothing like our shoes now. Throughout all the years, Andrew, the team, and everyone we’ve worked with, we’ve always prioritized, “How does this feel for the kids? How does it work? Do they like it? Are they wearing it? How can they wear it more? How does this work for their family, their parents, and their teachers?”

We have focused a lot on getting actual feedback. Andrew and our team are traveling to Kenya all the time. How can we make these shoes the best possible shoes for the kids? One part about the shoes I love, and you noticed it, is that it is closed-toed. It’s not a full sandal. That way, a lot of kids can play soccer. They can run around with this thing. They can kick a ball. They can run full speed. It’s not a flip-flop.

It’s not going to fall off as they’re running.

We’ve even had certain countries where they take their shoes off and on a lot as they go into a building. They didn’t want a shoe that was fully connected all the time, so to be able to flip up that back strap so that you can be slipped on and off easily. We try so hard to get as much feedback as we can from the kids to make these shoes the best possible shoe for these kids. At the end of the day, it’s not about me. It’s not about Andrew. It’s not about what we need as an organization to survive or whatever. It’s about making the best possible pair of shoes for these kids as we can, so that it’s a benefit for them.

It’s one thing they can cross off their list. The shoe does not solve every problem for them. It doesn’t solve every challenge that they’re experiencing in their world, and yet we do believe that it’s a small thing that makes a big difference. The better the shoe can be so they can walk to school, run around, play, have fun, help their families at home, and do all the things that they do, that gets us going. Let’s get as many of these shoes to as many kids as we can because we believe it’s a fantastic shoe for these kids.

I can say as a parent of two boys living here in the States that they only wear sandals a few months of the year because they’re in sneakers or whatever else at school during the day, or it’s too cold, or whatever. I’ve had the frustration of a parent going and getting the sandals out and realizing they didn’t fit before a trip or something like that. I see the utilitarian need for something like this here in the States at the same time, not necessarily only where there are impoverished people looking for a solution. I’m a green-minded mama here.

I want to buy fewer things, if at all possible, and make them last longer. It’s a disappointment to me when I bought a pair of KEEN sandals that they wore for two months, and then the next time they put them on, they’re too small. I get it. It’s important that you’re doing this hard work and that you have that feedback loop. Without that, you’re not going to create the best product, the most utilitarian, and you’re essentially no different than another shoe company. I love that.

Quickly on that feedback loop, because I do think it’s an interesting point. When you’re in the nonprofit space, inherently, that feedback loop can be difficult. What a nonprofit is, is effectively, you’re trying to create and deliver a solution to someone who can’t pay for it or can’t pay a market rate. You have someone else who’s paying the market rate or paying to subsidize, which is the donor or whoever is funding the mission.

The issue can be when your customer, and in our case, the children or the families who are receiving the shoes, aren’t paying for them. It can be difficult sometimes to get the best feedback because they’re grateful. If the shoe isn’t quite what they want or doesn’t quite fit right, they’re not returning it for a refund or leaving you a one-star review.

It’s all the more important that you get out there in the field, that you’re on the front lines, and that you think through the behavioral part of this to understand how well this is solving their problem. Not for free because someone’s paying for this, but how well is this solving their problem? How can we make it better? How can we become more efficient?

That is where bringing a for-profit mindset into a situation and operation like this, figuring out what you need to do to get accurate feedback so that you are creating the best solution for those ultimately receiving the product or service. Also, giving your donor and funder a great experience where you are cycling that impact back to them. Inherently, nonprofits are more difficult than for-profits because you have two different customers that you need to both be serving well. In our case, that’s the kids and families, but also our donors.

The Future Of Because International

I’m thinking about where you’ve been, where you are now, and where you’re headed. As we are in this conversation, as my audience is here in the room with us, so to speak, I could imagine them thinking about how it’s a shoe, but it serves a real need. Where do you see this going from here? You have what is a very functional product. It looks attractive. This looks like something I would get my kids, frankly.

I wouldn’t feel embarrassed wearing this myself. My feet aren’t growing anymore, so I’m not your target demographic. To the earlier point that Kenton made about not building a product that was planned for obsolescence, guess what? New kids are born every year. You’re going to have new people to service and provide a tool to every year. Where do you see this company going in the future? Is there another product line that you’re concocting or thinking up for other climates, perhaps?

I’ll jump in and then let Kenton chip in where he’d like. From day one, even the way Kenton set this up, he didn’t name the organization The Shoe That Grows. It is intentional with this broader mission of poverty alleviation. The shoe has been our thing. It will be our primary thing, I’m sure, for years into the future. The mission is broader. It is to provide opportunities, especially for kids who are struggling with the day-to-day reality of what it looks like to live and grow up in poverty.

The shoe is a simple thing and a small thing, but it does make a big difference in their health, their comfort, and their dignity. It also makes a difference in completing a school uniform and keeping them safe on those long walks into school. You look at the data around latrine usage and some other things. It’s not the one thing that fixes all of this, but it is a small thing that makes a big difference.

We would love to see this problem solved, planned obsolescence, and work our way out of a job, but the reality of it is. Even in Kenya, where the story began, where we produce our shoes, there are well over a million kids who don’t have a pair of shoes, or their shoes are so inadequate. They are struggling with cuts and scrapes, which lead to infections, and parasites like hookworm that cause all sorts of issues. Even if we focus on Kenya, which is where we’ve been focused more than anywhere else, there’s still so much work to be done, and then expanding into other countries and other world regions.

That said, back to the original point I was making, the vision has always been a little bit broader. We’ve experimented with some different things and some different products. We’ve supported some entrepreneurs on the ground in these communities. They live in these areas. They grew up experiencing these issues. They’ve come up with their own innovative solutions. We’ve supported about 150 of them in different ways across the years.

As I look to the next few years, we’ve narrowed our focus on some other simple but important day-to-day challenges that these same kids who are receiving our shoes are facing. These are issues that tend to affect their educational outcomes. How can we come in and help address some of those other issues, like school uniforms, some other school supplies issues, and menstrual health and hygiene for these girls? That is a huge thing that impacts our educational outcomes.

There are a lot of great organizations that are doing work in this space. We have some specific skillsets we’ve developed, like a platform and a community of people who care about these kids. We are doing some more learning and experimentation about where else we can come in and help the day-to-day lives of these kids be a little bit easier and promote those educational outcomes.

You’re already manufacturing in Kenya. I can see the deep, entrenched desire to support the community there. You also mentioned parasitic issues and things like that. Access to clean water is a big issue for people in impoverished areas. I could see all sorts of things coming out of these collaborations. Whether it’s you directly working on it or through collaboration in the areas where you have the most feet on the ground or in your shoes on the ground. Kenton, I thought you were going to say something.

One thing to note, and I love this about Because International and what we’ve been trying to do, is that we had so many people help us in our early years. It made a huge difference. We wouldn’t be here without people believing in us, whether it was technical advice or general cheerleading and encouraging us.

I want to say to anyone reading that Because International is a little light that would be shining and saying if you have a crazy idea for a product that you think could make a difference, whether you live in Cambodia, Uganda, or Charleston, South Carolina or no matter who you are and where you live. If you’ve got an idea for something that you think could make a difference and you don’t quite know how to bring that idea to life, reach out to us.

We might not be able to help specifically, but we’ll point you in the right direction. We’ve had people do that for us when we were getting started. The Shoe That Grows was a crazy little idea. There’s no lack of creativity in the world. There’s no lack of good ideas in the world. There are so many good ideas out there. It’s hard to make things happen. It’s hard to bring things all the way to the finish line.

If our team and our network can do anything to help people bring their crazy idea to a world that needs it, reach out to us. Let us know. Shoot me an email. I respond to every email that I get. Let us know how we can help. Let us know what you’re passionate about and what your idea is. We’ve been helping these amazing entrepreneurs around the world for the last several years.

We’re focusing on some specific ways of help, but we know people. People have helped us. We love making these connections so that a great idea is not left in the drawer. A great idea is not still on the back of the napkin in the trash, but this great idea that you have can see the light of day and become a reality. We’d love to help.

They’re not as formalized. It sounds like you have your own little incubator program, so to speak.

Many people have helped us, and we love paying that back. We love crazy ideas. Ours is still a crazy idea. Bring them on. If we can be helpful, let us know.

It’s like a big audacious goal, right?

Yes, even a hairy one.

Because International’s Business Model For Their Big Audacious Goal

You’ve spent a fair amount of time talking about the process of getting here and also this entrenched commitment to your goal of working to create something that can be a truly regenerative business design, whether it’s a not-for-profit or otherwise. This is a cause. It’s a cause, an idea, and a company. To me, this embodies an ethic that’s directly connected to this idea of regeneration, which supports people and the planet, is sustainable.

At the same time, is working to create a better world that is also working to engender hope in a specific area. There might be days when it feels like there isn’t much hope. I personally love that. This is one of the areas I spend time researching. I’m in a PhD program specifically focused on sustainability education, but my work is focused on regenerative business designs. I wonder if there’s a specific model that you followed in creating this thing, this big audacious goal, this Because International. Were there tools that you leaned on that you might share with people here?

I’ll be speaking to some of how I’ve processed, especially Kenton’s early journey. He can jump in and correct me for adding to it. I know what he won’t correct me for is this simple idea he started with, which was, “I made friends with these kids in Kenya. They didn’t have shoes, and they were suffering because of that. How can I get them shoes?”

Eventually, years later, after the shoe became a reality, we accidentally went viral. All of a sudden, there was all of this attention and, with that, some criticism about the model. All of that has been a learning experience. We’ll never do things perfectly. We love the feedback. We love to iterate and improve on both the product and model. It all started with this simple idea that these are kids. They deserve to have shoes. They deserve not to have to deal with injuries, infections, and things that are keeping them from school, which they love.

These kids love to go to school. I’ve got four kids of my own. They’re very happy that the school year is finishing. I laugh a little bit, but it’s also a little bit sad because school is such an opportunity, and they see that. There are these dumb little things that can stand in their way. All of that said, it’s beautiful and simple. You get into the operational reality of how you can create the shoe, and then scale something that could get to hundreds of thousands or millions of pairs.

We have a big vision for the years to come. That’s where you start answering questions. Is this a for-profit? Is this a nonprofit? We want to get these to kids and families who can’t pay for it. That’s the mission by design, so we’re probably going to need to find an outside funding source. We either need to sell the shoes and then use the profits to get more shoes to kids. That’s like the TOMS model. We also have a lot of people who love this idea and love the shoe.

We want to design the shoe for those kids, not necessarily for kids who can buy them. Some of those kids still have. We’ve done probably tens of thousands of pairs to people that pay more of a retail price, and then we get more shoes to kids. This nonprofit model seemed like it was the best way, and that has proven out. That has required us to go find people who don’t want a pair of the shoes for the value it brings, but they see value in the mission and vision.

They see value in the work we’re doing for the kids and where we’re going. They’re going to invest in that instead of buying pairs of shoes for their kids. That’s where it’s like, “If we’re going to scale this and achieve this big vision, we need the funding. In order to get the funding, what model is required? How do we find those people, cast the vision, and create these relationships and partnerships that are going to make this happen?”

I don’t think anything that I shared there is groundbreaking or new. It’s simple, but at the same time, it’s not easy. It is simple, but it is hard work over a long period of time that requires grit and persistence, especially in those early years. It was a good 5 or 6 years of Kenton having to constantly wonder, “Is this even a good idea? Everyone is turning us down. Are they right? Should we keep going?” Eventually, slowly but surely, through a lot of hard work, the pieces have fallen into place.

Speaking especially to any entrepreneurs out there, people who are working on their own ideas. You look at where Because International is now. A wonderful pair of shoes that has been tested. We’ve had great feedback from the kids. We have a great team that is committed with dignity and respect. We are getting to kids who truly need them. Those kids, we know that they need them because we are working closely with local leaders and schools.

We have a great system in place. We are making all of the shoes. Every single pair of The Shoe That Grows is made in Mombasa, Kenya. It’s made in the areas where they’re being used. I’m so proud of the model that Because has now. It was not always that way. The first few batches of the shoes were made at a factory in China, a factory that we loved and worked well with us. We worked well with them. We needed to do that because we didn’t have the relationships in place to make the shoes in Kenya.

We even made the shoes in Ethiopia for a minute or two before we found this great relationship in Kenya, a factory that could make our shoes. It doesn’t happen overnight. When I first had this idea, if they had said, “Here’s the preferred model. Can you do it this way?” We would have been nowhere close to doing it in that preferred way. We’re still learning, growing, and doing it better.

For people to not feel an intense pressure to do it perfectly from day one. You might not be able to have every part of your business model be exactly what even what you want it to be from day one. Those big pillars of what you’re doing, can you stay true to those, and then can you keep making progress? We were always true to our shoes and the kids. We wanted a great pair of shoes that the kids would love and would make a difference in their lives. We’ve always done that, but we’ve gotten better at it.

We have gotten better at some of the ways, like the logistics and operations, to help us do that. Since Because International is in such a healthy spot, it’s fun talking about our model. We still have ways to go to continue to get better. We got some criticism and feedback from people in our early days, like, “Why aren’t you doing it this way? Have you thought about this? Have you thought about that?” We always appreciated it. We always listened to it. We always responded to it. We were never afraid of people criticizing or giving us feedback.

Often, we would say, “We’re working on that. We’re not quite there yet. Would you like to make a donation to help us do that?” We weren’t quite there yet. For anybody who’s working on having a sustainable model and all of the good and right things that businesses should be doing for people on the planet and for their own bottom line, sometimes, you can’t do that from day one. That was one of the biggest things I learned. I was glad that we didn’t quit and say, “Since we can’t do this from day one, we can’t do it at all.”

I’m glad that we got started down this road. We kept making things better. We had so many people believe in us, even though we probably weren’t doing it as well as they hoped or as well as they wanted us to do it in the future. We had people believe in us, and they knew that we could get there. They joined us and came along for the ride. too. That’s probably the biggest thing I’ve learned about our business model and our experience with creating this organization. It doesn’t happen overnight, but it’s still worth it to get through a lot of those bumps in the road to then get to a healthier place.

You might find that a not-for-profit isn’t the end-all, be-all for your company. You could find that these newer business models, which are starting to crop up, like a social benefit corporation or something like that, are more fitting, especially if you intend to create a retail model where you’re selling the shoe more in other spaces.

Unlocking Continuous Improvement Through Feedback Loops

That doesn’t happen overnight. That takes planning, strategy, thinking, spit balling the idea, stress testing it, and doing all of that backend work. What I feel you both talked about as we converse about your business as a whole is a truly reflexive design of your business where you’re open to iterative improvements. That in itself has helped you to address a problem you identified while still coming from the outside.

You came from the Western world and are going to Kenya to try to solve a problem there. One of the criticisms I’ve heard from people who are based in Kenya or elsewhere in West Africa or Africa in general is, “Some Westerner comes in with a great idea, then creates a solution. It doesn’t necessarily serve us. Maybe work with another institution in that area and help them come up with something.” Is that something you considered or tried to do at any point? How might it have changed your approach?

It’s the big one. It’s the core one. It’s the one that has come up consistently over the years, and not just externally, but from us individually. I’ll always be the biggest critic of the organization. A lot of it goes back to even that prior comment I made about how, when you’re something away. A lot of times, people will take it. You don’t understand the value it’s creating. You also don’t understand the externalities, some of the potential harm that it could be causing even if you’re giving it away for free.

You have to work hard on creating the feedback loops and understanding the end impact, both positive and negative, that the program, product, or intervention can have. The first good thing to do is to develop partnerships and relationships with the kids and families by listening closely, but also with other disinterested third parties or people who will tell you the truth and give you their honest feedback.

For us, we do not directly do any distributions on the ground, but rather work through trusted local partners that aren’t getting paid by us. They’re in the business of being there for these kids, solving some of the issues and challenges that these kids are facing. They believe enough in the shoe and the need that they get involved. They incorporate it into their existing programming.

That is why it is so important that we have these local partnerships, these organizations that are operating in these communities. Their mission is to keep kids in school and to achieve these educational outcomes. They believe in the impact of the shoe, so much so that they do the work to incorporate it into the programming they’re already doing, have us come alongside to verify that the work is being done, and we do our own impact measurement. That way, we get direct feedback from these organizations. If it’s a waste of their time and resources, they would let us know.

As they get feedback from the teachers, parents, and students that we’re not getting directly, they let us know. At the end of the day, they have their own mission. They see the value in this product. If we didn’t have them, if we simply took money from donors that believe that they’re doing good work, and we think we’re doing good work, and we ship the shoes over there.

We don’t have that feedback loop, and we don’t have that local partner on the ground that has the knowledge that can give us this feedback, then we run the risk of not making as much impact as we would like, maybe not making any impact at all, or even worse, hurting when you’re trying to help. For me, it goes back to that idea of feedback loops.

I also imagine that this gives you more measurable impact to report back on and then do the fundraising calls with. What sort of information are you capturing?

For us, we have this simple flywheel. We get money from donors, produce shoes, transport those shoes through these partnerships to set up the distributions, and get them to the kids. We do pre-surveying, and then we do surveying while we’re distributing, and then we go back after the fact and do distribution and impact management. We also collect, when we can, individual stories and anecdotes, these stories of impact that we can communicate back to the donors.

That completes the loop. The better we do this simple but not easy loop, the more shoes we get to kids. What’s most important is impact. There are some pretty extensive pre-distribution surveys to understand these kids and the top issues that they’re facing. Some of the issues have to do specifically with shoes. Some of them don’t. That’s again great information as we think about where we go in the future beyond shoes. On the actual distribution day, we’re able to capture some of those moments and some of those experiences and fill in some data gaps.

After the fact, we come back 3 months, 6 months, or a year later. That’s the first thing we go into. It’s like, “How many of them are still wearing the shoes? How do the shoes look?” Some basic product analysis, but then also those interviews about, “What do the shoes mean to you? Tell us about whether you’re dealing with foot injuries and infections at the same rate as before.” We can look at things like attendance rates. Some of those things get complicated. That’s multivariate.

You have to be careful about what you attribute to what, and yet it’s still directional information. It’s still interesting and important to hear these individual stories from these kids to collect attendance data and educational outcomes. It is being careful not to read too much into things that may not have statistical significance, but also to collect enough information that it’s helping you get better and be able to then honestly report that back to donors.

Responding To The Call To Make A Real Difference

Do this long enough, and you might end up with a winning marathon runner or a soccer star who talks back about their positive experience with your shoes one day. As we’re preparing to wrap here, looking back on your experience up to this moment, first, would you do it all again? Second, if you did it all again, where might you have shaved off some of the time it took you to capture these learnings?

I’m happy to start. I’ll let Andrew finish. Would I do it all again? Yes, I would. 100%. Would I do it exactly the same? No. Even the name itself. People sometimes wonder where the name Because International comes from, especially that word because. It’s a regular word. Was it a preposition? Whatever it is, it’s a regular word. People are like, “Where did that come from?”

Living outside the US for a year, my life was changed. I got back to Nampa, Idaho, after a year of traveling. I know that my career is not going to be outside the US, but I still want to do something. I was impacted by my travels and the kids. Everywhere that I went, I saw things that I wanted to make a difference to try to help. I get back. I’m in Nampa, Idaho. I’m home. My life is very comfortable here, but I want to help. I go back to this journal with all these ideas, and I land on the one about the growing shoe.

I knew that if I was going to do it, I wanted to commit to it. I don’t want to do this half-heartedly. I made a list of reasons why I should jump in with this idea to try to make a growing shoe, and then reasons why I shouldn’t. There were so many more reasons on the side of why I should do it. All the reasons started with the word because. I was like, “Because my friends need this. Because they don’t have any other options for shoes.” There were all these reasons why, for me, at that time, it was the right choice for me to jump in, say yes, and move forward.

I have a tendency to either do something or do nothing, and I didn’t want to do nothing. That wasn’t an option. Sometimes, I can get into this mode where if I don’t do it perfectly, I don’t want to do it. For me, it was like, “I can’t do nothing. I want to help.” I need to be okay with doing that in an imperfect way because I can’t do nothing. That’s not an option. Would I do things differently? If I could do it all again, for sure.

I would have leaned on Andrew a little bit more, a little earlier on some of the business side of things, and other board members, too. I wouldn’t have done it so much by myself. I would have leaned on others earlier. I would have, hopefully, found our shoe people earlier. The little shoe designers that ultimately helped us, I wish I had found them a year or two earlier. I wish I had been a little bolder to ask for support from people at some big levels earlier.

We have so many amazing donors. Whether it’s $1 or $100,000, we have some amazing people who come alongside us. In the early days, I couldn’t imagine someone donating $1,000 for the 3,000 pairs of shoes I have in my guest bedroom. I couldn’t even imagine someone, a foundation, an individual, or a family, donating more than $1,000 to help us out. I wish I had had more of an abundance mindset and dreamed a little bigger, a little bit earlier. There are a lot of things that I would do again. Andrew and I made some good choices and good strategies and found some great partners along the way.

I’ll finish saying this. I’m a White guy from Nampa, Idaho. I don’t know everything about Kenya. That is a fact. 100%. I know Nampa, Idaho. Come ask me about Nampa. I know all about Nampa. This is where I grew up. Why are we doing this? Why did we do this? Did we have the right to jump in and do this? We have so many good friends in Kenya.

Truly, my main decision point, besides not wanting to do nothing, was that I did not want to go back to my friends and tell them that I wasn’t willing to help them because I might not know how to do it correctly. I wasn’t willing to say that, not to the kids and not to my other grown-up friends. I did not want to tell them, “I’m not going to help because of reasons that I read in a book.”

It’s hard. Frankly, that’s the thing that would have kept you from doing it.

I didn’t have the perfect plan. I didn’t have a sophisticated model of compassion, relief, and aid. I didn’t know all those things. All I knew was that my friends needed some help. Since they’re my friends, I want to help them. It was very simple for me when I started jumping into this. Honestly, I hope it never loses its simplicity for me. I don’t ever want to do nothing, and I always want to help my friends. That’s probably where I’m always going to land. I’m glad I did that, and I hope I keep doing that.

You have your ethical foundation. It’s admirable.

That’s it. I’ll let Andrew share, too.

Not too much to add to that. We can add a little more of a heartfelt tone rather than an academic tone. There are lots of could have, would have, should have done differently to accelerate our rate of learning. That is what’s most important in anything like this. 100%, I would do it again. In addition to the mission, the other throughline or underlying part of this story is the story of a couple of guys who have been best friends since we were about 7 or 8 years old. We’re able to go into this together and, in some ways, maybe risk the relationship and friendship. If anything, it is only strengthened. To be able to do meaningful work but also with people you love, there’s not much better than that.

The fact that you guys have known each other since you were 7 or 8 years old also means that when you look at each other, you remember that moment. When you look at the kids who are 7 and 8 years old struggling to fit into a pair of shoes, it feels more real. In part, it’s probably your early connection that keeps you connected to this work. That’s incredible. I also, Andrew, understand that you want to accelerate learning wherever possible. It’s hard sometimes to figure that out when you’re external to the challenge or when you aren’t near the everyday of it. The design that you’ve come up with, ultimately, though it’s the third iteration.

It’s the third major iteration. We have continued to tweak every time we’ve learned.

It’s both attractive, functional, more durable, and all of the things. That’s fantastic. BecauseInternational.org, I believe, is the URL, so people can learn more, be generous with their pocketbooks, help support you, and maybe create some recurring donations. I am a big fan of choosing a specific not-for-profit each year to give a recurring donation to.

In 2026, it’s already taken. I’m working with Prescott College, which is my soon-to-be alma mater for my PhD program, but I encourage people to consider your not-for-profit as one that they might do that with. They can choose an amount every month that they feel they can part with. That’s the thing that keeps so many charities going, especially in times of economic constraint like the ones that we’re in.

We appreciate it. We’ve been able to get to a point with this shoe where every $10 provides a long-lasting pair of shoes for a child. That’s our commitment. We get the shoes to the kids, but then also the impact measurement, gathering these stories, and then being able to share those back with our donors.

Thank you so much for joining me.

Thank you.

Thank you. This was fabulous.

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I truly loved the exploration, getting to know Andrew and Kenton and learning about how a shoe that grows with you could even be constructed, why it might be needed, and how it could go from idea to full production. There are over half a million kids wearing these shoes. That’s a big number. I want to encourage everyone to think about what your because is. What are the things that you simply couldn’t walk away from because you felt like you had to? You had to do that thing. What is your because?

When we stop asking ourselves a question, such as how do we give more, how do we help more, or how do we help our friends, then we lose track of what our true purpose is. Start thinking more about how you can have a greater impact in your life every day. Whether it be in your home, your scholastics, your workplace, or your community. This is how we create the world that we want to live in. When we care more, we can create that better world together.

This is at the root of what a regenerative mindset is. It is one that is iterative, and one that seeks to build a little bit better the next day. For those kids’ feet that keep growing, our ideas have to keep growing, too. As always, we are proud supporters of our cause partner for 2026, and that is Prescott College, where future leaders are being trained to think systematically, act ethically, and lead regenerative change across communities and ecosystems. Thank you all for tuning in and for sharing this episode with your community. Thank you, now and always, for being a part of this community. The world doesn’t need more one-time fixes. It needs builders like you. Be one of them with us. Thank you.

Important Links

• Kenton Lee on LinkedIn
• Andrew Kroes on LinkedIn
• Because International
• Because International on Instagram
• Because International on Facebook
• Because International on YouTube
• Because International on Pinterest