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The climate crisis continues to lead to more powerful and life-threatening typhoons and hurricanes. These climate-driven disasters are exposing safety issues with our housing system and putting many people’s lives at risk. Corinna Bellizzi sits down with George Siegal, a documentary filmmaker and former TV journalist, who sheds light on the systemic failures that make homes unsafe while blatantly ignoring the harsh realities we live in today. He discusses what it takes to build homes that are disaster resilient and can last for many years, as well as the true costs of constructing such residential buildings. George also explains how homeowners can make better decisions when choosing their homes, particularly now that weather conditions are expected to worsen for at least 30 years.

About George Siegal

George Siegal is a documentary filmmaker and former TV journalist who builds impact through story. His use of investigative storytelling helps people understand complex problems so they can make smarter choices that protect their futures. As founder of Move the World Films, he tackles resilience, housing, and system failures with a solutions lens. Credits include the award-winning Built to Last: Buyer Beware and The Last House Standing.

Guest LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/george-siegal/

Guest Website: https://www.movetheworldfilms.org

Guest Social: https://www.facebook.com/movetheworldfilms

Additional Resources Mentioned:

Built To Last: Buyer Beware (film): https://movetheworldfilms.gumroad.com/l/kaywco

The Last House Standing (film): https://movetheworldfilms.gumroad.com/l/wNcIq

Show Notes:

• 03:06 – Investigating Housing Resilience And Disaster Risk
• 11:48 – How Can We Build Better And More Resilient Houses
• 14:44 – The Problems And Loopholes Of Housing Insurance
• 24:36 – The True Costs Of Building A Safer Home
• 28:51 – Getting Ready To Address Residual Challenges
• 37:09 – How To Improve Building Codes And Housing Regulations           
• 43:16 – Why Disaster Will Follow You Wherever You Go
• 45:03 – A Potential Film About Insurance
• 50:37 – Discussion Wrap-up And Closing Words

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Uncomfortable Truths About The Housing System With George Siegal

Welcome, Regenerators. Each week, we explore the intersection of sustainability, justice and regenerative thinking through conversations with leaders that are working to build a healthier future for people and for the planet. This conversation takes a us directly into the path of storms, both literal and systemic across the United States. Climate driven disasters are exposing uncomfortable truths about our housing system.

Homes built and vulnerable areas are increasingly failing to withstand hurricanes, floods, wildfires, and extreme weather events. Getting the deeper story isn’t just about storms. It’s about the decisions that we make, who decides where we build, who bears the risk when a home fails and why do we keep repeating the same costly mistakes. My guest is George Siegal, a documentary filmmaker and investigative storyteller whose films explore exactly these questions.

His work examines the hidden risks within the housing market and the consequences of decisions made by builders, regulators, insurers, and policy makers. His films, the Last House Standing and Built to Last: Buyer Beware, reveal how many homes across the United States are far more vulnerable to disaster than many homemakers realized. Better building practices and better practices, in general, dramatically reduce the risks that we incur.

In this episode, we’ll explore the true cost of ignoring climate realities, the systemic failures that keep unsafe homes being built over and over. Also, the solutions that could make communities far more resilient and the decades ahead. With that, I hope you’ll join me in welcoming him to the show. Welcome, Joe. I’m sorry I called you Joe.

Joseph is my first name. That would not be a mistake, technically.

Joseph George.

I’ve been called that a lot. That’s fine. I love that name.

I must have just got it hardwired into my brain somehow.

It’s all good.

To begin with, I’d love to hear the story behind your work. What first led you to investigate housing resilience and disaster risk? Perhaps also, what surprised you most during the research phase for the Last House Standing?

Investigating Housing Resilience And Disaster Risk

It’s a couple of things. I was in the television news business for many years. I was a weatherman, a reporter, and a show host. I would cover a lot of disasters and see a lot of houses that were destroyed. Also, over the years, since the mid ‘90s, I’ve been a homeowner in every city that I’ve lived in. I always see what the problems are in that industry with what we buy. Every time I’ve moved someplace else, I’ve applied more knowledge to realizing what stupid mistakes I’ve made along the way in where I bought and what I’ve bought.

I try to learn from those. That’s a growing pain that I’ve been going through along the way. As far as making the films, the Last House Standing, was made right after Hurricane Michael. Where it wiped out a good section of Mexico Beach in the Florida Panhandle. We also covered other parts of the country. We did tornadoes in Oklahoma, wildfires in California, Earthquakes in California and on the West Coast. There’s so many disasters. Every place in the country has them.

It’s finding the people that want to come on and talk about that. People that want to share their misfortune. I’m not a gotcha journalism guy, where I’m going to walk up and stick a microphone in front of a victim’s face. I’ll call you and say, “Would you like to talk about it? Here’s what we want to talk about.” We were fortunate to get some great people that shared their stories that hopefully other people learn from.

I’m no stranger to these sorts of disasters either. We have friends who lost their homes and the CZU fire complex, which erupted out of nowhere at the end of summer back in 2020. This was a climate disaster, like lightning strikes hit the ground. We very rarely see lightning here and Santa Cruz County, but a number of lightning strikes hit. It torched Hillside in almost no time.

Many people had very little time to get out. Several decided to stay home and defend their properties. This is another thing that, in fact, probably did save the community in the Ben Lomond area. It’s not like I even want to put that forward as a reality because encouraging people to stay home can encourage loss of life too.

That’s a big deal.

It’s a kind of extreme that some people will go to when they fear something like, “What am I going to do? Is my insurance going to cover my costs? I don’t want to lose my home. I don’t want to lose my Hillside.”

That’s a huge decision when people decide, should I stay and try to ride this out or should I leave? With wildfires. it can be pretty horrible because you can get just blanketed by a firestorm and burn up instantly. You can be killed very quickly by that.

The wind can change.

It can change and it happens all the time. Where I live in Florida, it’s, do I evacuate? Do I want to be plucked off the roof of my house? A lot of times, when they do mandatory evacuations, they’ll tell you to write your information on your arm, your Social Security number so they can identify your body. It’s because nobody’s coming for you until after the disaster passes.

If you stay behind, you’re risking first responders lives to try to come and rescue you. They’re not going to do it in the height of the disaster. It’s a huge risk. It’s always a calculated gamble. We’ve dealt with that with hurricane here. One time, we evacuated. We evacuated to a place that was less safe than the house that we left behind.

If you stay behind during a disaster, you are risking first responders’ lives to try to come and rescue you.

I’m sure that wasn’t intentional. It just ended up being that way.

We were stupid. We believed what they were saying about the hotel we went to. In the height of the storm, I saw the manager. I said, “It’s good to know we’re safe here.” He goes well, “Technically, you’re not. This place was grandfathered in back in the ‘80s and we are so far below code.” It’s ridiculous. A lot of water got into the hotel. A lot of shingles blew off. It was a lesson. I should know better on some of the mistakes that I’ve made with the hurricane before that.

We had two in a row such as Helene and Milton. The water was 4-feet from my front door and I’ve never experienced anything like that. Now. Thank God, we didn’t get it as bad as a lot of people but our pool motor burned out. We had to acid wash it. We had a mess everywhere. There’s different layers of disaster. You’re thankful when you don’t get nailed and some people get wiped out.

There are some technologies that exist now even in how you build a home. That can reduce the likelihood that you will face the severity of damage that many of these homes see. At the same time, there are limits to those technologies. Sometimes, we get a false sense of security from them. I’ve even seen advertisements for Andersen windows and doors or something, warding off what seems like a lake rising outside someone’s home. I’m like, “Maybe the doors are holding up. What about the foundation of the home or what about this?” You don’t know what you don’t know. Often, you don’t see a problem in your home until it’s already too late.

I’ve consulted some experts after the tornadoes that happened in Michigan, where an entire neighborhood was destroyed. A huge area was wiped out. If you get hit by a bullseye storm, sometimes there’s absolutely nothing you can do. If a F5 tornado rolls over your house, it probably doesn’t matter how it’s built. That’s just not going to be a good day for you. That’s where those secondary things are. What kind of insurance do you have? What was your evacuation plan to keep your family safe?

There are layers to what we have to do. You can’t always say the house. A better-built house that’s a half a mile to the right or left of the tornado can survive based on how it’s built and what construction methods they use. It’s those things you want to protect. You can’t live in an underground bunker that’s going to protect you from everything. You can do a lot of things to give you a better chance of coming out of it better than you might have if you did nothing.

Some of these new terms that we’re hearing and the weather perspective are also very alarming. It’s something that needs to gather our attention. There’s a reason that we refer to things now as bomb cyclones. A storm that hits a coast and a perfect storm that will literally make the sea level rise like wipe through the streets of Capitola, as an example, in my neck of the woods. This is something I’d never seen happen. I’ve been in the area for many years, but it doesn’t matter. We’re not living in the same climate that we’re living in many years ago.

The weather channel loves to put names on things. I look at disasters like the Pacific Palisades fire. I grew up in Pacific Palisades in junior high and high school. I know a lot of people that lost their houses there. We never thought the town would burn down. I thought a lot of houses were vulnerable when they built up into the Canyons. The deeper you get into the woods, the more likely you are going to run into a fire.

The town itself and then the structures closer to the beach. You always think you’re a little more safe in those areas. The fire was so bad that some of those places didn’t have a chance. Yet, there are things that could have been built differently to have had a better chance. Again, if you’re in that Firestorm, that fire tornado when it just rushes down the hill. There might not be much you can do.

If you have defensible spaces around your house, if you use the right type of roofing, if you have your soffits covered properly. The vents there aren’t letting embers get inside your house when there’s a fire. Most people don’t even think about that stuff. That’s the stuff that gets you. When we covered the Woolsey fire in the Last House Standing, there was one house where the fire passed him by. They were fine, but there were a few embers left on the roof. The house caught fire and burned down. You have to be on your game. Most people just assume, “It’s not going to happen to me.” They go about their daily business without thinking anything bad is going to happen.

This is the reason we can no longer have fireworks.

It depends on where you are. We have a drought here. It seems like every year and people shoot them off in neighborhoods. The fireworks pieces are landing in people’s yards. People are just worried about their own little lane and they don’t venture beyond that. In a disaster, you see who the real heroes are and who the humanitarians are. In the time before that, everybody’s pretty much out for themselves. They don’t worry about what could happen to anybody else. They’re not worried about what could happen to themselves. They wouldn’t take some of the chances than they do.

How Can We Build Better And More Resilient Houses

I want to talk for a moment about these escalating risks and the sorts of things that we can do to help mitigate the concerns. You’ve alluded to some of these things. What exactly can we do? What’s in our power? How can we build better?

The first thing you can do is demand better before you buy something. Don’t accept somebody else’s garbage that they’re passing along to you. For example, if you’re looking at a house, a new house or new construction. If they’re touting, this house is built to code. What they’re telling you is, “I took the minimum standard I was allowed to build this house to. That’s what I’m presenting to you. Here is this house built to the minimum standard.”

I like to drill down a little deeper and say to them, “What hazards did you consider when you were building this house? How did you build this house to withstand those?” We live in a neighborhood that floods. Tell me my vulnerable areas and what did you consider? We live in an area with hurricanes. What wind did you build it too? If you live in an area with earthquake’s, what did you factor in when you were building this house that would withstand a 6.5 earthquake?

You have to ask more questions. What we do is, we go to a house and we see the beautiful countertops and the nice wood floor that they put in. Maybe a bar with a butler’s pantry and all these things that are just wooing you to take your eye off the other stuff. We’re more interested in the icing on the cake than the ingredients that we’re going to be living with. That’s where we take a risk. There’s so much mediocre building. There’s so much minimum standard building.

Most houses in this country are spec houses. A lot of times, builders don’t want to take the risk of putting in features that they don’t think someone will pay for. I would love to see them say, “I’m only building safe houses. We could solve this problem tomorrow.” If building codes were made stronger and everybody said, “I’m not buying garbage.” The builder said, “I’m only building safe houses.” Who’s going to blink and go first? I don’t think anybody is.

What I try to do with my films and my message is telling the people all of us at the bottom to stop this stuff. Don’t buy that house. Remember a few years ago during COVID people were buying houses without even doing an inspection because the market was so desperate and hot. People were just taking stuff sight unseen. That’s a real risk. You need to inspect the heck out of something. Those $500 or a thousand dollars more, may be spent to check out that house, which may save you hundreds of thousands of dollars and years of turmoil in your life when you’re disrupted by a disaster.

A lot of times, we say, “I don’t want to spend the money. I don’t want to do that. I don’t want to do this.” When you have a disaster and there’s people all around me in my neighborhood that every one story house flooded in hurricane Helene. Some of them are still out of their house two years later. They’re not even close to back in. People down in Fort Myers Beach and Sanibel Island are not even close to getting their lives back to normal. It could be a 5-to-10-year recovery, and a lot of people never recover.

The Problems And Loopholes Of Housing Insurance

Part of it is an underinsurance problem. Can you talk about insurance in the difficulties that we’re facing today in this arena?

People in the insurance industry might argue with this. I think the goal of insurance is completely contradictory to our goal of having insurance. Our goal is to have insurance because if a disaster happens we need to make a claim. We know they’re going to be there for us, and are going to take care of us. Their goal and it’s been proven time and again, is to find ways not to pay you. Find out where you made a mistake and find out how they can cut corners and give you less. Which means you can’t fix your house as well as you should. God forbid, you have to sue them.

In Florida, you cannot even get attorney fees if you win anymore. That’s the case in a lot of States now. You can only go to arbitration. Insurance companies have deep pockets. If it’s you against them, you literally have no chance, first, of a quick resolution or second, of winning at all. They’re going to outlast you in most cases. You have to have that leap of faith that they’re there to help you. What I see time and again, there was a gentleman in our film, Built to Last: Buyer Beware, Doug Quinn. He’s now an advocate for storm victims.

It took him seven years to get back to his house. They did everything they could to stonewall him, delay him and make it as difficult as possible for him to get what he was entitled to for paying for that insurance. There’s people in Florida that are living 2-3 years after a storm with a blue tarp on their roof. It’s because they can’t get their insurance company to pay. You know the stories in California, of all the people that have not been able to rebuild their houses yet. It’s because of all the red tape and all the baloney.

Insurance companies don’t want to pay them enough. That was also an area where the market has appreciated way more than what they originally paid for that house. If you have a house that you bought back in the ‘70s that you paid $50,000 for, the lot now might be $2 million. How are you going to rebuild that with insurance on a $50,000 house if that’s all it was worth? It’s a real challenge. What I encourage everybody to do that’s reading this, if you do one thing, have somebody explain your insurance policy to you. It’s so you know exactly what you have and what’s covered.

People here in Florida might think, “If there’s a sinkhole, I’m covered.” No. It says on page three of your insurance policy, “You have no coverage for sinkholes.” I bet there’s exclusions for different types of fire situations or earthquakes in California. You have to have a separate earthquake policy. You don’t just automatically get earthquake insurance. A lot of places you have to have separate flood insurance.

If water gets in your house and you don’t have flood insurance. You’re not getting any money. They’re not paying you because they don’t have to. I don’t know that there’s rarely going to be a situation where an insurance company is going to go, “Corrina, I feel bad for you. Here, we’re going to pay.” It doesn’t work that way. It’s, “Oops. You didn’t see that. We don’t have to pay you.” people are in trouble. You could end up with a house for years that you’re paying a mortgage on that you can’t even get back inside.

I’d like to dive a little bit deeper into some of the challenges with insurance because the primary challenge that we see here in California is that people are underinsured. As you mentioned, maybe their home might have been worth $50,000 or $150,000 or $300,000 or $400,000. Now, the building costs have dramatically increased. The structure wouldn’t be able to be rebuilt for that. They might need to invest half a million or more to build the same structure on it. How do we evaluate those things? What is reasonable?

In California too, they have that coastal commission. If you’re near the coast like with the Woolsey fire in my film. If you didn’t rebuild your house to the exact footprint that it was, you had to go through a lot of hoops to change your plans. It’s because you might be blocking somebody’s view. A lot of things that you have to go through. I’m not an expert on insurance to the point where I could tell you, “If I have a $50,000 house, can I insure it for five million dollars because that’s what it would cost?” It’s certainly a conversation you want to have with your insurance agent.

You say, “How can I be in the best position here to protect myself if something like that was to happen?” Maybe there’s certain terminology that can be in there for replacement value of what you have to insure. A lot of times, that’s an extra cost in an insurance policy. You’re glad you have it when you need it. I don’t think I’m going to get in a car accident tomorrow, but if I do, I’m glad I have auto insurance. I’m glad I have airbags. I’m glad I have a seatbelt.

You want as many safety features as you can. With insurance, the biggest safety feature you can have is understanding what your coverage is. Also, if there’s other coverage, you can purchase one that will help you in the event of a disaster. You can’t take the attitude of, “I don’t want to waste all that money because the odds of it happening again after the big fire.” Statistically, that’s not true if it’s a 1 in 100-year flood.

I’ve heard experts explain to me, what that means is there’s a 30% chance of it happening and not a 1% chance. It’s way over what my old gran can understand. What I do understand is that risks are there and I believe in having insurance to protect us for them. I had a guy completely explain my insurance policy to me so I understood it. An interesting sidelight, when we switched homeowner’s insurance. The county did not have us registered for the safety features that we had in our house.

We have a concrete block on the second floor. They had it listed as a house with wood on the second floor. Why does that matter? I got the county to update that and it knocked our policy down a thousand dollars a year. It was their mistake. Not ours. I never would have even thought about it. They would have just said, “This is your cost.” I go, “How come I’m not getting the benefit of building my house better?” That’s something we could talk about for the future.

If I build a house in Malibu or the Palisades or somewhere and I make it a fire fortress. I should pay less insurance than you if you’re living in a stick frame house with gasoline cans in your front yard. They should look at me and go, “George is trying here. His house is less likely to burn down. Let’s not charge him as much.” I don’t know if that’s always done, but it certainly is something we need to set a standard for.

One of the things people need to understand too is the insurance companies have to pay out so much. Premiums all have gone up, whether or not you’ve exercised a policy. This means that the insurance costs are likely to go up. One thing I didn’t know before I made inquiries about this was that the amount that insurance can go up year over year is dictated by legislation. What is allowed in California is something like 32% a year.

My fire insurance costs have been raised by that amount every year for the last five years. This does mean I’m paying a lot more than I was when I moved in 2009. It’s gotten to the point where that makes home ownership untenable for some people. You’re talking about your costs going up by $500 or $600 or $700 a month and you have to come up with that. It’s not like something you can just go without. Frankly, your mortgage would go on the default because that’s one of the contingency issues that they have at hand.

We need to think about what we’re doing and what we’re able to afford. We also know that in some of these zones, the insurers themselves are dropping people. You have fewer options available in your marketplace. In the case of California, this means that several individuals have had to go with the state option. Which is almost double the cost of what I’m paying on the value of something like my home.

I thank my lucky stars in a way that I still have my State Farm Insurance policy, but so many of my friends lost theirs. These are the realities we’re having to confront. If you’re making the choice to become a homeowner, what are you considering? Where do you want to live? What sorts of natural disasters do you have to control for? What are insurance costs in that area? Look at these things because it may not be the right solution for you. You may want to pursue something like renting first or only, if this is where you’re going to choose to live.

There’s no question that needs to be a factor in your decision. If you’re saying, “I’m going to live in this risky area. I can’t afford the insurance, but I’m going to take the chance.” You need to look at examples of what happened to people who took that same chance and how their life is turned upside down. In the end, it might not be worth it. In Florida, we saw people that chose to live by the beach, like the people that lived on Sanibel Island. The guy that runs the conservatory out there said, “I wouldn’t live here if I had a choice of knowing the risk.”

Within 17 miles inland, is a neighborhood called Babcock Ranch that built the entire neighborhood to withstand a hurricane. They got hit by a category four hurricane and had minimal damage. You’re not walking out to the beach from your porch. At least you have a house to go back to after the hurricane. It might be worth that 30-minute drive to the beach to know at the end of the day you’re going home to a house that’s safe.

The choices you make can dictate how your life goes. It’s a risk living in a fire zone, in an earthquake zone, or in a tornado zone. Some people have no choice. Your job is there and your family’s there. That’s where you have to be. That’s where you then have to have all the other stuff lined up so you know how to evacuate and all the other things that we talked about earlier. That might be your only choice. If you have a choice, I encourage people to think about it and make the smartest choice. Not always the fun choice.

When it comes to your home, make the smartest choice, not always the fun choice.

The True Costs Of Building A Safer Home

As we think about this, what does it take to build a safer home? How much more does it cost? What are the sorts of things that get in the way of building every home more safely?

That’s one of the things that keep people from having safer homes is because the people that build them aren’t real transparent on the cost. For example, say it was 20% more to build your house with concrete block on the second floor, a fireproof roof. All the trimmings that would make your house safer. Let’s say that a million-dollar house is now a million two.

What I would love to see the industry do is put together a cost of, “Your house was destroyed. Here’s the number of months you’re displaced. Here’s where you’re living in a hotel. Here’s where you’re replacing everything that you own. Here’s where you’re driving your kids 45 minutes to school every day. Here’s where your job no longer exists because everything burned down.”

We never see the cost of not doing it. W hat I’m saying is, I’m not turning my nose. I’m saying a little bit. To a lot of people that’s a lot of money, but the cost of not doing it is even more money. If you could factor that into a 30-year mortgage, but you’re in a safer house. It’s worth the money. I see all around me people that are just rolling the dice and taking that chance that nothing is going to happen. Every year, it does.

We’re going into some of the worst tornadoes season possibilities that have ever existed probably over the next month. They’re severe weather contrast that are happening. There’s tornadoes in places that don’t normally see them. There’s record heat in the Southwest part of the country. I heard that in California, temperatures are going to be over 100 degrees. I don’t know when this episode is coming out but they’ll have known about it by then.

With all these different extremes, why not be as prepared as possible? Some people will say, “Historically, those things have happened in the past and they’ll happen again.” I don’t want to sound like a climate alarmist. I’m just saying that’s the reason. We know it’s happening and it can happen to you. What are you going to do about it?

The bad news is, the weather will continue to get worse for at least the next 30 years. That’s what climate lag is. We’re dealing with the repercussions of the pollution that we created 30 years ago. How much worse is it going to get? That’s anybody’s guess. Those 100-year storms are becoming those ten-year storms or becoming those annual storms.

We need to think about these things and we need to plan and build around that. It also means long-term. This whole dream of having this single family home might have to go to the way of the dodo for many so that we can live in safer buildings that are constructed to support many people in a single area.

That’s what you have to be careful of too, though. A lot of apartment complexes are built worse than a lot of the houses that we’re buying. I don’t know how it is in California but in Florida, if it’s a five-stories or less apartment complex. Most of it is made out of wood. This is an area that has major hurricanes. The stairwell is usually concrete and the parking garage. The rest of the building quite often is wood. You’re not safe in that if there’s a storm.

How many people live in an apartment that don’t even have renter’s insurance? You have everything in that apartment and then you think, “I’m in a huge apartment complex. I can ride the storm out here.” You may be in the most dangerous place in your community and your stuff is not covered. The landlord’s building is protected by his or hers insurance policy. Your stuff is not. You need to have insurance for that. You need to know that you probably can’t stay there in a storm.

Even if you’re a renter in whatever you’re renting. I still encourage people to know what the risks are of the building that they are in because you can still be a victim. You could still lose your life in that situation. Information is very important to have to know what you need to do to be safe. Make sure that you got the right information. I doubt they put a disclaimer on the side of the building that says, “This is going to go airborne in a hurricane or this building will burn down if hits the Santa Ana wind. You’ve got to know that stuff yourself. I don’t think anybody’s going to just volunteer that information to you.

Getting Ready To Address Residual Challenges

What are some of the residual challenges that people see? Let’s say the storm has passed. It looks like the structure of their home is okay. In California, we hear about the four-letter dirty word of mold. It can be that silent issue in the background that is incredibly hard to get around and that can impact people’s health. Are you seeing concerns like that in Florida and in around these areas?

Absolutely, and this is what my experts that I consult in the film tell me. It’s like, “You have a house that you put concrete on the first-floor, wood on the second floor and then you put stucco over it.” What happens in storms, water gets into certain areas in that house and then drips down the walls. Now you’re going to get mold and degrading in the strength of that as the woods starts to rot. That house that might have been built to withstand 140 mile an hour winds now has rotten wood on the second floor. If there’s 140 mile an hour wind now, that house may not survive that disaster. That happens a lot.

You probably see that a lot in in California with mold. It used to be asbestos. I think we got rid of most of that, but there’s always hidden things that tend to resurface again. The question is, what are you going to do about it? That’s why better construction, knowing how your house was built, knowing the barrier that they put on it to protect you. How is that going to age? How is that going to last over time? How many years is the builder responsible for that?

In Florida, they just lowered it from 10 years to 7 years when you could sue your builder for large material defects. Do you think they came up with that number by accident? Ask anybody that owns a home, when does most stuff start to fall apart? Seven years. They wanted to pass on that. They got the law with their heavy lobbying industry to change. Now, we have even less rights and protection. You need to know wherever you live in this country, how your house is built.

You need to know, wherever you live in this country, how your house is built. Those things that can go wrong. Over time, they are a problem for you.

Those things that can go wrong and over time, they are a problem for you. That’s why a good inspection when you’re buying it. I know people that have a ceiling fan in their bathroom. That’s just vented into the crawl space above the bathroom. All that moisture is now shooting below the roof of their house. You don’t think there’s mold developing in there over time just because somebody didn’t finish the vent and send it out the roof? You need to try to find out as much information as possible in any situation that you’re in. How things age over time can absolutely affect you.

I even tell people, ask the builder to see the engineering report of how they did the air conditioners and the heater. Why is that important? If they didn’t design it efficiently, that air conditioning unit that’s supposed to last fifteen years may only last 6 or 7 years. Now you have a major expense that you didn’t think you were going to have just because they saved money on putting the right size ducts in the house. Putting enough return air in the house or measuring the tonnage right so enough airs blowing into the house and pulling it out. You need to ask a lot of questions.

I wish it was all just a little bit simpler because none of us can be completely experts on this. This is the reason it’s so important that we hire, people who are reputable inspectors to look at our homes to make sure that we’re going to be safe. Frankly, if you are looking at renting a space. Perhaps ask some of those questions or even just take a walk around the perimeter of the house. Do you see that there is a vent through the roof over the bathrooms?

It’s more than that, though. It’s like, did they put caulking around it or flashing around the vent when it’s going out of the attic so water is not even getting in? When you hire an inspector asked them the depth of what they’re going to look for so you can look for other things. I tell people some simple stuff that I’ve learned my lesson. If you have kids and you’re looking at a place to live and there’s an upstairs. You and your wife sit at the table down stairs and tell the kids to go upstairs and run around. See if the house is shaking, rattling and what’s going on.

Look at the floorboards. Sometimes, you’ll see going down a wall that piece of wood gets narrower and more narrow as it’s going down to the end of the wall. It’s because they didn’t square the room right. Are the windows all squared? Look at arches that are in a house. I see some of them that are tilted. They couldn’t even make an arch right in a house. There’s little things you can look for. Open and close doors. Knock on them and see if they’re hollow. Open windows. See if the windows are jammed shut so the house is settling. Maybe that’s a problem.

There’s a lot of stuff you can look for that the inspector might not. It doesn’t take a lot of time. It’s not the fun stuff. No one wants to think about this. Some people are probably reading going, “This guy a downer. He’s ruining it for me.” Look at it from a different side. I’m bringing stuff up that I hope you’ll think about so it doesn’t happen to you. It’s because I’ve either covered it or lived. It I’ve seen almost everything.

Every now and then something new comes up, but I’ve seen just about everything. I’m always going, “I can’t believe I just watched that video where they did this. I can’t believe how they got away with that.” You see a whole neighborhood that’s falling apart because they didn’t let the ground settle properly before they pour the foundations for the houses. It’s always something. If people put the time into just Googling builders and looking into things. You’re going to see things that you’ll now have the knowledge about to ask yourself.

Never take their references for houses that they built. Walk around and look for houses that look like yours. Go knock on the door and say, “Who built your house? That was built by so-and-so? Tell me your experience.” Maybe there have a non-disclosure and they can’t tell you too much information. Maybe you’re going to run to the right person that’s going to go, “I never hear from them when I have a problem. They don’t stand behind their work.” Maybe you’ll hear that they’re amazing and they love what they do. They care about it. You’re not going to find that out if you don’t put the time into doing the work yourself.

This is why when people get real familiar with looking at houses, they tend to buy the home that has what they call good bones. That is what led me to the home I’m in. I bought it from the contractor who upgraded it and it does it has good bones. There are some minor problems but every house will have something.

Construction is not a perfect world business where nothing can go wrong. Look at how many people are building a house and how many things they have to do. What I judge by is when you pick up the phone and say, “Fred, this is what’s wrong with this house.” He goes, “I’m going to send somebody out right away. That shouldn’t have happened.” It’s how do they handle problems. Everybody has problems. It’s how are they taking care of and address it.

You can learn a lot by reading the 2 and 3-star reviews more than the 5-star reviews. What my friends and family say about me, I could just tell you myself. You want to hear what the other people say, and then how I respond when they say something bad. When I was running my production company, I believed the customer was always right. If there’s a problem, I need to fix it. I need to take care of it. Those are the people I want to work with or buy from.

What you’re mostly talking about then is larger developments where you have, let’s say a whole community that’s been built by a particular builder.

In like a neighborhood like mine, maybe five houses in a neighborhood that are built by a certain builder. Maybe one or two of them is on his list of references. It’s the other house is that you want to go to. I don’t want to name anybody because you can Google them and find out who the guys are that are having the challenges. If you’re buying, it will tell you, “This whole neighborhood is bad. They’ve had a lot of problems.”

A lot of times, it’s great. You look at Babcock Ranch in Florida. The people there seemed thrilled with how everything goes. They’re thrilled that they’re surviving after a disaster. There’s a lot of great builders out there. You’re not going to find them if you don’t hunt around and ask a lot of questions. You have to almost become a detective and ask questions. Don’t fall in love too quickly. Take your time.

How To Improve Building Codes And Housing Regulations

I wonder if many of the changes that we need to see have to start with regulations. What changes do you think we’ll see an existing housing policy over the next decade?

I hope you we would see more but it’s challenging to change the building code. We showed an example of that in Built To Last: Buyer Beware. In Mexico Beach, Florida, that got wiped out by Hurricane Michael. They made the building code stronger after the hurricane. It’s still wasn’t as strong as would have survived Michael, but they still took steps to make it stronger. People complained so much that the building code now is weaker than it was before the category five hurricane.

It’s not easy to change building codes. In the Last House Standing, we saw in Moore, Oklahoma, after eight tornadoes, they finally changed the building code. They were having houses get wiped out that even were not in the direct path of the tornado but they weren’t as well as they could be. For the cost of granite countertops, they’re building houses are safer there now that are surviving tornadoes. They finally stepped up and did the right thing.

I interviewed a builder there. I said, “If people still had the choice of the granite countertops or the safer house. What do you think they would choose?” He said they would still choose the granite countertops. They don’t even have faith in us to make the right decisions. Ideally, building codes would all be stronger. Where I live, everybody would build to withstand a category five hurricane, in my opinion.

In California, every house would have a fireproof feature to it. They already probably factor an earthquake. I haven’t lived there for a number of years. You want to think that they’re thinking about that stuff. The construction industry has a huge lobbying arm that fights to keep codes lower because when they’re lower, they’re cheaper. You can sell things for less. The profit margins aren’t huge on construction. Every nickel counts.

Especially with how much homes cost in California. People consider something like adding 20% and it feels like a lot. You’re also considering all the other costs. If we were to be able to control for some of the insurance costs as for example and have it come down by that thousand dollars a year that you reference. Maybe with time, it will become more affordable. If you were faced with loss of property and having to rebuild, there is nobody that I know and my community that didn’t have to pay more to rebuild. They didn’t have to invest more to rebuild, or were not able to build the same size structure. Sometimes they had to make a lot of compromises.

The cost of being proactive is a lot lower than the cost of being reactive. If you can get things before they happen, if you can do mitigation, look at the wildfires. How many billions of dollars have been lost? How many hundreds of millions could they maybe have spent to clear brush and make sure the reservoirs had enough water? The whole system, the infrastructure was better before the fire took place.

The cost of being proactive is a lot lower than the cost of being reactive.

That would have cost a lot less than what it’s costing to rebuild everything. We see that scenario everywhere. Doing it right is a lot cheaper, but it’s not easy to tell somebody, “That house is now going to cost you $200,000 more.” I realize for a lot of people they might not qualify for the loan that because that happens. Maybe it’s not the right time for you to buy there if you cannot live there safely.

Also, who should be responsible for paying for the risk too. That’s the other thing. If you choose to live in a risky area and I chose to live in a safer area. I shouldn’t be penalized by sponsoring your choice. My rates shouldn’t be skyrocketing because you have a better life than I do. the risk should be tied to the people that are taking the biggest risk. That would be a more equitable system.

Some of the challenges are advocating for being able to have insurance companies sell across state lines. Often, an insurance policy will only work within California and California code and things like this. You go to Utah, and it’s a different provider. That provider can’t also bridge over into California. That affects how much competition there is, which also drives costs up.

I’m not sure how much of that would be solved just by having more options available. If people are being asked to spread the risk, like in Santa Cruz County. I’m not in a super riskier area, but embers travel in the air and can land on a roof. My neighbor’s house could start burning down and that fire could lead to my house. It just happens like this, and this is the thing that’s near impossible to control for now in its drought-stricken area.

The people that choose to live deeper in the woods or on the beach, there are certain glaring risky choices that people may. If I live in a one-story house in a flood zone where the flood levels 11 feet, I’m taking a huge risk. There’s people in my neighborhood that all they did was fix their house and move back in. The storm that flooded us was not even a direct hit. They have a less expensive house that they chose to fix, but still who’s bearing the risk?

I don’t know if that’s all assigned properly and how that all works. Insurance companies are making a lot of money. That’s not an industry that’s going bankrupt. They have deep pockets and a lot of money. You wouldn’t see them advertising like they do. You dig down and do some research online. You’ll see these guys are making hefty profits. We’re the ones that are taking the brunt of it. When you talk about how bad your insurance is, that’s insane that people have to pay that.

If you have to pay over $100,000 a year to protect your house from burning down, that’s insane that people are charged that kind of money. It’s unfortunate. It would be great if that whole thing could be regulated. Who’s going to fix all this stuff? Is it politicians that are benefiting from the lobbying efforts that these industries are making to avoid those things happening? Who’s going to make the change? Who’s going to be the hero?

Why Disaster Will Follow You Wherever You Go

That’s part of the problem. I wonder what your thoughts are about communities, in general? Do you think people will eventually shift away from rebuilding in some of these riskier areas?

They have no choice in a lot of areas. I’ve read that a lot of people I’ve had to abandon their homes. There are lots in the Palisades and sell the lot because they can’t afford to rebuild. I know a lot of people have left, where I live in Tampa, because they can’t afford the process of rebuilding or they’re still living in a trailer in their front yard. A lot of people end up having to move on because you’re starting over. If you saw in Built to Last: Buyer Beware, this one gentleman had a house. He had a couple of boats. He had jet skis. He had the beautiful perfect Florida life, and it all got wiped out by Hurricane Ian.

He didn’t have contents insurance. He’s been paying a mortgage on a house for two years that he can’t live in. His life is forever turned upside down. He’s got to go someplace else. He’s never going to be able to fix the house that was destroyed and that happens to a lot of people. Where do they go? What kind of debt did they leave behind? How’s their life messed up by that? The bank doesn’t go, “You get it Mulligan on this. You can start over.” They still want their money. A disaster doesn’t mean you can just leave. What’s weighing you down from it will follow you wherever you go.

A Potential Film About Insurance

That’s the unfortunate truth. I have so enjoyed this conversation. I will point people to both the films that we mentioned with the onset of this. You referenced Built to Last: Buyer Beware several times. This is an important film for people to watch. It’s through stories that we understand the depth of these problems through watching these people’s experiences. We can see where perhaps we could be victim for some of the same things to happen to us if we’re not careful. I wonder if there is a next project that you want to highlight or perhaps somewhere else that you would like people to spend some time and thinking.

I would love to make a film about insurance and all the little nuances with that. It’s very difficult with the documentary film to raise the money for projects like that. It’s also very difficult to get the people that are the worst offenders to come on camera and talk to you. It all depends on what your angle is. Anything that deals with insurance, it’s going to be hard to get to the people that are the ones we need to have exposed.

That’s a challenge to make a film like that. I would love to do something like that. I would love to make a film about families and the challenge of holding the family dynamic together. Documentaries are a great way to tell stories. The biggest challenge for any filmmaker is making the money, coming up with the money for the film. In your introduction, you talk about money was coming up as an example. That’s the great equalizer. Documentary filmmakers aren’t in this business to get rich. We want to tell stories and you have a passion for it, but you still have to pay for it. That’s always the challenge that holds me from jumping into the next thing.

I see some crazy collaboration between you and Michael Moore taking this story. I could see it happen.

He’s got a lot of money, though. It’s different. He’s one of the guys. There’s always a few breakout people but his films always have an agenda. When he’s in a film, you know what the slant is going to be and who he’s going after. I like to let the story tell it. It’s not George’s idea of how the world looks. I want to show you how the world looks. With him, I got to say. I used to be intrigued by him, but now he’s just a cartoon character who has an angle. He’s the story. Not the story. That’s not to me what I like about documentary films.

I get what you’re saying. He’s a personality and he puts himself at the center of the film. You’re right.

He does.

If he didn’t do that work, how many of us would know about the severity of the issues around Columbine?

He’s done some important things. I can’t take that away. I look at people that are successful like that. There are qualities you want to admire that that get the story out. Those are huge examples of the positive side of that.

Still, we don’t have gun control.

If we could fix every problem in the world, we would be so much better off. We got to just pick them off one at a time.

One at a time. Bit by bit. It’s the war of slow burn, a slow change. Especially when you’re going up against big interests like insurance companies and builders. I get it.

It would be great if you talk about somebody like Michael Moore. If he can make a film like that, he would walk into a place like that. He would have the wherewithal to walk right in the door that a lot of people might not. I would love to see something like that, even if I’m not the one that made it. I’d love to see those guys exposed for what they do to the people that are paying their bills and how we get taken advantage of on a regular basis. That’s an important story to tell.

Frankly, the issue is that we’ve privatized too much. What are we left with? Anyway, George, this conversation has highlighted something that we don’t talk enough about. Which is where we build, how we build, and who’s accepting those risks. Your films have challenged us to rethink these decisions. I hope that my audience will take the time to follow the links and spend an hour and a half watching a documentary about these challenges. I’m thinking about how they could be part of a solution. Even if it is just changing how they look at their home or deciding not to purchase something that could settle them later with great challenges.

I like to say everybody can do something. It may not be to the depth that you want. You may not be living in a fortress that could ride out the world’s biggest disaster. There’s something you can do to improve your chances. That’s what I like people to come away with. It’s going, “I’m going to do something.”

Thank you so much for joining me and for helping bring these hidden risks into the forefront. This is an extension of a couple of other episodes on similar topics, which I will also link. My audience can find links to George’s films resources and related materials. Do you have any other closing thoughts you’d like to share?

I’d love it if people go rent the films and check them out. If you have thoughts about it, I’m easy to find. I’d love to hear from you because we’re the ones that can make a difference. If we start making better decisions, it can change the entire industry.

One of us one day at a time or all of us and one foot in front of the other, we should say. Thank you so much for joining me.

Thank you.

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Discussion Wrap-up And Closing Words

I could give you a few takeaways of my own experience watching these films. What I will just say is that it was a little uncomfortable in spots. Especially as I considered my own evacuation for my own for ten days and what it meant to my family to be displaced for that short time. Also, what I witnessed in my community. When I had friends who spent two years trying to work through the permits to get their homes rebuilt and then only rebuild a fraction of what they had before.

There were so many reasons that this can pose unique challenges for families and for individuals. We need to go in the ice wide open. We need to understand what our insurance will cover. We need to understand what we’ve committed to and where our liabilities end and where someone else’s begin. This also can apply to people who are renting their homes.

Be a little fastidious. Dig in just a bit and make sure that you are as protected and aware as possible. Now Care More Be Better is proud to support our 2026 cause partner, which is Prescott College whose work advances sustainability, education, and regenerative thinking. They help prepare the next generation of leaders that are working just towards building a more thriving planet and thriving communities.

Until next time, I hope you’ll check them out. Go to my support page on CareMoreBeBetter.com. Remember, when we care more together, build together, and join our hands, we can create communities that are safer and stronger. We can all be better prepared for the future. Thank you for being a part of this community.

Important Links

• George Siegal on LinkedIn
• Built To Last: Buyer Beware – Film
• The Last House Standing – Film
• Move The World Films
• Move The World Films on Facebook